Considering that the Philippines has been poor for most of its history, it’s quite a wonder that “poverty” gets the inches and air time it does in the Philippines’ mainstream media and the rhetoric of its “activists”. It really isn’t news anymore. The effort to “analyse” Pinoy-style “poverty” is effort wasted as there really is nothing much to work with as far as any sort of “research” to unpack “poverty” goes.
Quite simply “poverty” is but a mere symptom of a more fundamental social failure — an historic habitual entering into commitments one is inherently incapable of honouring. That’s all been dissected to death here, so no need to go into further detail about that simple definition of an over-analysed biological condition.
Mainstream media have long been outed as mere mirrors of their owners’ business goal which is to deliver content profitably. Therein lies the mystery of the continued prevalence of poverty porn in mainstream media. Poverty is not newsworthy. It does not sell papers or reel in eyeballs or clicks. History books are all about the rich, powerful, and influential — the bold and the beautiful of our species.
| SUPPORT INDEPENDENT SOCIAL COMMENTARY! Subscribe to our Substack community GRP Insider to receive by email our in-depth free weekly newsletter. Opt into a paid subscription and you'll get premium insider briefs and insights from us. Subscribe to our Substack newsletter, GRP Insider! Learn more |
The poor are mere footnotes. That’s the confronting fact of the matter. We invest in the rich because the poor don’t yield returns. If there is one reason to invest in the poor, it is, at the very least, to ensure they don’t get hungry enough and desperate enough to start scaling the walls of our fortified gated communities or start getting into boats bound for the nearest First World country to cause “humanitarian” crises. Seen from a risk lens, the poor pose a small existential threat to civil society. Mitigation comes in the form of the “poverty alleviation” measures most modern societies apply today to control their numbers.
How do we solve the problem of the Philippines’ poor then? Consider first whether this is our problem to begin with. The “problem” has, in fact, been solved in principle by capitalism and the free market — the modern financial equivalent of the African savannah where our ancestors first learnt how to stand on two feet and compete for resources. What more beyond a system where all are free to compete can we possibly envision?
Seen under this light, all the “news” and “insight” on Philippine poverty that pepper our newspapers and news screens don’t pass the So What? Test. Short of doling out cold cash and food scraps to “the poor”, there really is not much further one can do to “help” them other than to show them the readily-evident pathway to helping themselves.
benign0 is the Webmaster of GetRealPhilippines.com.
Capitalism and free market has failed if the only way to help the poor is “to show them the readily-evident pathway to helping themselves”.
benign0 is saying that “The “problem” has, in fact, been solved in principle by capitalism and the free market” – And I agree that it has been solved in principle; But I do not agree that it has been solved in practical [in the realm of reality] by capitalism and the free market. Otherwise there would not exist any socalled symptom which is poverty.
benign0 is clearly clinging on to status quo – only because he is afraid that the alternative is the ways of socialism.
Same can be said of communism. In principle, for the sake of “equality”, it makes sense to entrust ownership of the means of production to the state and rely on said state to distribute produce “equally” to the people.
But as to the practical application of communism? History begs to differ.
Communism has never existed… if you realize what communism actually is.
Nikola Tesla died poor because he refused to give in to people with special interests. Most probably, it was his life on the line and humanity’s progress versus those who wanted power in their hands.
Or perhaps society wasn’t ready for that kind of civilization, but who knows…
Then perhaps it’s about time you start to take notice of the bigger elephant in the room and join your comrades in GRP, Ramon Ortoll, Oman and Hector Gamboa, in discussing the more confronting issues at play by relevant active players.
Ortoll, Oman and Gamboa are not shy about where they stand on issues.
Never mind the irrelevance of the Kakampinks and the Yellows of yore.
Though your “recall” series posts are fine but newer topics are better and more engaging.
Just to name a few: the PBBM administration, the new Opposition of citizen Digong Duterte and his Maisug pro-chinese cabal, the West Philippine issue, Sara Duterte and the state of education under her and its relevant impact to the prospect of her becoming the future leader of the country.
Still, in the end, it will be your decision so this is not an entitlement!
No.9 If you don’t mind me asking: Why do you believe that the PBBM administration is a bigger elephant in the room than poverty? What is your criticism of it?
Leadership is the only way the country gets out of poverty. This site loves to praise Singapore and we all know how they were lead. So again… discussing poverty is useless unless you have a leader making policies/laws to promote the end of poverty… which is not happening with BBM. The guy thought his sham of getting foreign investment was somehow impressive, yet it means nothing, and he has done nothing substantial since he has been in office.
@Tim
I see, then i will agree with guys…
Then the questions arises: what kind of policies/laws to make in order to promote the end of poverty? And who fits the bill?
Lee Kuan Yew’s leadership isn’t the only thing that made Singapore an asian economic miracle. Singapore’s economy is perfect for Singapore, it’s not necessarily perfect for the world.
(Trivia: Singapore’s already a booming economy even long before Lee Kuan Yew took over. Had a setback during the second world war. Then it was rebuild again.)
Only of those people amongst us who appreciate the lesson in the study of political geography understand its value and reason behind the relatioship between geography and its impact on state affairs including the economy and security.
It’s funny how some people here marvel at the leadership style of Lee Kuan Yew in Singapore but vehemently refuse to allow any Filipino leader to apply that same kind of strong leadership here in the Philippines.
Authoritarian governance of long reign of 58 years by a single family, with virtually no opposition, no rebellion, allowed Singapore to maximize its advantages while limiting its shortcomings.
Filipino society votes for corrupt and incompetent politicians. Poverty is rampant in Philippines because it is a country where corruption is being rewarded and honesty is being punished.
The problem is there is no Lee Kuan Yew in the Philippines, it is a country where honor is being punished. Benevolent dictatorship is extremely rare, rarer than even diamonds.
Another problem in Philippines is political dynasties are rampant. Same family members holding different gov’t positions at the same time. Prime examples are the Marcos, Duterte and Tulfo families. A big problem with most political families here is they feel they’re entitled to the positions they’re holding and if they lose the elections, they get angry because they think they own the gov’t positions, they think it belongs only to their families.
Another thing you have to consider is Filipino society hates intelligence and competence which is why they vote for incompetent candidates. Look at the senate, they treat senate hearings like court trials, but it’s just a court of public opinion which is why they use ad hominems there. How is this related to poverty? The senators waste tons of money and resources in conducting useless hearings, those can be used to improve the country instead of just grandstanding in senate hearings.
Oh, Singapore was a third world country which is why Lee Kuan Yew has “From third world to first” book. Lee Kuan Yew is also intelligent and competent, and he is right when he said that only in the Philippines where the wife and children of a leader like Marcos Sr. were allowed to return in politics. They have President Marcos Jr., Senator Marcos, Congressman Marcos. I heard that PNoy is the worst Philippine president in this generation, but looks like Marcos Jr. has a possibility of taking that title away from him.
“The problem is there is no Lee Kuan Yew in the Philippines.”
Lee Kuan Yew is no superman. Neither he is the absolute solution nor the ultimate answer to every nation’s prosperity.
If he is, why can’t other third world leaders just apply what he has done to Singapore and then magically transform themselves ‘from third world to first’?
Lee Kuan Yew may be effective in Singapore (or Singapore is ideal for his kind of leadership) but what what gives you the idea he’ll still be just as effective if he is to rule another third world country on earth?
I’m very well aware that Lee Kuan Yew is not superman. He is not perfect like every human being, but he’s intelligent, competent and and more importantly, he’s a problem solver. He’s far more honorable than current Philippine politicians will ever be. There’s no Lee Kuan Yew in the Philippines because Philippine society is horrible, corrupt and stupid. Philippine society doesn’t even hide the fact that people there reward corruption and punish honesty.
Lee Kuan Yew had issues, but he’s far more competent and honorable than all the Philippine lawmakers, VP and even the president combined.
@No Data:
“Philippine society is horrible, corrupt and stupid.”
Wasn’t it you who said that ad hominem is not allowed in an intelligent discussion?
Well, it doesn’t take too much of an intelligence not to notice how your showy exaltation of Mr. LKY and Singapore is just short of your usual and habitual attempt at ‘identifying’ for validation. But wait, even without the evidential proof of any proper nor logical connection? Hmm, not smart.
I read people here refer to this as KSP.
Having no skin in the game there… no honor there, really, not intelligent.
The vagaries of colonial thinking and attitude, I suppose, is one reason that promotes poverty in the Philippines. Typical arrogance and that lack of something that one can contribute to nation building. These type of characters just add to the national problem.
Maybe you can try living in Singapore. You might like it there. It would be good for you and the country.
@No Dice
Ad hominem you say? There was already a recent study that Philippines’ average IQ is below average. Isn’t that stupid? Horrible and corrupt because according to a Filipino lawyer who livestreams in Youtube, corruption is being rewarded and honesty is being punished in the Philippines. A corrupt politician is rich and is feared. I agree with hin because the Philippines’ rating in the corruption perceptions index is horrible. Elected officials are reflections of voters. Look at those people who idolize Raffy Tulfo, they vote for him because of the money he “gives” to the poor and look at Erwin Tulfo’s failed DSWD cash aid distribution which ended with a stampede and recently, look at how many people marched to the BSP in hopes of getting free money. Many Filipinos ask for cash aid and fall for easy money scams because they’re greedy and stupid enough to fall for it. You don’t need to have 150+ IQ not to fall for those scams. Filipino society’s mindset is mendicant/beggar mentality that’s why their standards in voting is who about giving money to people.
FallenAngel wrote his reasons why he’s not proud to be Filipino in his article. Does it mean he committed ad hominem too? His reasons are also the reason why I said Philippine society is horrible, corrupt and stupid.
Koko Pimentel even attempted to guilt-trip the US, Japan and Western Europe by telling them to help the Philippines mitigate the effects of severe drought to prove that they’re true friends and not just after military interests. I say that they are not obligated to donate anything to the Philippines with little to nothing in return.
I don’t dream of living in Singapore and I already said that Lee Kuan Yew wasn’t perfect, but he’s far more honorable than current Philippine politicians will ever be. None of Filipino politicians solve problems. The proof that Lee Kuan Yew is more competent than Filipino politicians is Singapore’s rise to first world.
“Typical arrogance and that lack of something that can contribute to nation building”
For the record, I am not obligated to help your country by offering solutions and I am not obligated to help your society solve your problems.
One more thing. I still choose Singapore over Philippines because Singapore is far better than Philippines, a land of trash.
“Ad hominem you say?”
If that’s the case, then, No Data is horrible, corrupt and stupid.
“I am not obligated to help your country by offering solutions and I am not obligated to help your society solve your problems.”
No problem. You simply can’t!
Having no real aptitude to speak of, no achievement, with zero expertise/talent, other than an inborn arrogance, how can someone with no natural ability to do something exceptional for the benefit of his society be expected to be obligated to help his own country?
It’s easier for you to bandwagon on the achievement of others and claim an entitlement.
Such a lazy and mendicant mentality… of a parasite KSP.
“The proof that Lee Kuan Yew is more competent than Filipino politicians is Singapore’s rise to first world.”
Though it can be perceived in that way, but, believe it or not, the truth remains, the proof of Lee Kuan Yew’s competence can be argued as far as Singapore only is concerned.
I hope you understood the point.
@No Dice now you’re throwing personal insults against me. You are arguing against me, but unable to counter my points, so you resort to ad hominem.
I already cited the reasons why Philippine society is stupid. Is having a below average IQ smart? I even cited FallenAngel’s article and asked if he committed ad hominem too. Big reason why Philippine society is inferior and stupid is because they are horrible voters in general, no wonder they are being governed by inferiors. Look at the Philippine senate, it’s just a witch hunting ground now. Look at how Filipinos vote, they vote for officials who have pending cases and ex-convicts, they also vote for same political families. Even BBM belongs to a political dynasty, he has a senator sister and congressman son. Filipino voters also vote for re-electionists regardless of their credentials. Does honor even exist in the Philippines? Look at officials with pending cases, they still run for gov’t positions. In Japan, if a gov’t official gets exposed for corruption, he will resign and be too ashamed to face the people anymore. The kind of politicians Filipinos support have no honor and don’t know how to be ashamed when they do something wrong, they vote for politicians who think they’re gods and the list goes on why Philippine society is horrible and don’t deserve my respect.
@Boom oh yeah? Philippine politics is a huge joke being ran by jesters. Lee Kuan Yew is a problem solver. I can’t even find a Filipino politician who solves problems.
@No Dice
It’s no use trying to convince No Data. This is what happens when you revolve your life around inverted Pinoy Pride.
No Data sick concept of an imagined superiority is nothing more like that of the classic “crow perched on a carabao” thinking.
He’s acting like the pseudo superior crow and considers the carabao as his inferior. Tsk, tsk…
In truth, No Data’s habitual arrogance delivers NOTHING!
The difference is that the collective oligarchic class of the Philippines became the middleman between the Filipino masses and their American colonial overlords, simply content to settle on exporting Filipinos as cheap labor in exchange for a continued flow of foreign currency into the national treasury. Lee Kuan Yew on the other hand was driven by Singapore’s vulnerability as a predominantly Chinese city-state surrounded by Malays. His experience during WWII taught him that Singaporeans cannot rely on Britain for long-term security and prosperity.
The big irony is that the Philippines also benefits from a strategic location in the western Pacific as a major trade and shipping hub (why do you think this archipelago kept being the battleground of more powerful nations), but no Filipino leader ever had the foresight to use this fact as a leverage to catapult the country into First World status. The system of government, the particular set of policies are secondary; no Filipino administration simply sought to make the Philippines a great country. It’s the lack of vision and genuine love for the nation that ultimately doomed this place.
Lee Kuan Yew obviously wasn’t omniscient, but he had an ambition to make his country prosperous and respectable in the eyes of their neighbors. As the saying goes, if there’s a will, there’s a way. You’d hardly find that in the politicians here who are content to have their ego stroked as neo-aristocrats.
Another reason why poverty is rampant in Philippines is because besides being horrible and stupid, Philippine society is also lazy, mendicant mentality is very rampant in the Philippines. Their standards on electing politicians is how much money those politicians give them yet they still wonder why they’re still poor. We all know that politicians who claim to be pro-poor are just lying through their teeth.
@No Data
So you only want to trashtalk about the country and the people… Thats typical arrogant and very snobbish. Are you sure you’re not a chinaman? 🙂 To be serious: No one is obligated to help. It’s common courteous and benevolent to help. I like to think that it’s humankindness to not feel obligated to help but are helping nevertheless. I do agree with you that filipinos are generally not intelligent. It’s a hard truth that they/we must face.
Why should I respect a country governed by inferiors? I don’t respect inferiors. Why should to help an arrogant and corrupt society which punishes honesty and rewards corruption? What’s in it for me?
@No Data
You are a true arrogant snob. You don’t have to respect somebody to help them. The reward is to feel proud and feel good about yourself… the feeling of being a good guy.
Maybe you fit the bill of suffering from superiority complex (just saying…).
@No Dice help them? What will I get by helping Filipino society? Why should I help them for free? If ever I help them, I should get compensated for it. I forgot to say that I also hate and have no respect stupid people because stupidity is my pet peeve, and Philippines has low average IQ.
@No Data
Imagine being so arrogant that you have to paid to help someone in need.
BenThere was right, you do have a superiority complex.
@No Data: Arrogantly asking to be compensated for an unwanted supposed help with zero value that delivers nothing is a shameless trait of people with horrendous stupidity whose loser thinking is of below average IQ.
@No Dice @Jose why is it bad to ask for compensation in exchange of my help? You’re just asking me to use my resources or efforts for others without anything in return, that’s inconsiderate. It’s all about what your society wants. What about my wants? Even modern heroes like soldiers and law enforcers get compensated for their sacrifices. Besides, Filipinos always rely on cash aids or relief goods which they call “ayuda”. No use helping people who won’t even help themselves.
@No Data
“No use helping people who won’t even help themselves.”
Only snobs say they won’t help themselves. Realists say that they cannot help themselves.
@No data
No one is asking you to use your resources or efforts without anything in return. It’s common courteous and benevolent (humankindness) to help anyways without expecting to get anything in return when someone is in dire strait. Like soldiers and law enforcers they do not expect to get something in return (except their paycheck) for their sacrifices.
“Besides, Filipinos always rely on cash aids or relief goods which they call “ayuda”. No use helping people who won’t even help themselves.”
Only snobs say they won’t help themselves. Realists say they cannot help themselves.
As the saying goes, even God himself helps only those who help themselves. Last I heard, God ain’t what one would call a “snob”.
God is not human either
@benigno
Tell me: where exactly does it say in the bible (any bible) that “God himself helps only those who help themselves”?
And God ain’t human either; I was refering to humans, ofcourse, not imaginary entities.
You miss the point by nitpicking on what is or what isn’t in the bible. Extending help is a form of investment of one’s time/resources. Help is not an entitlement. Just because one is in need does not make one entitled to help.
And even in a world where we enjoy an abundance of people willing to help wretched Filipinos, it comes across as quite pathetic to be unable to present to the world a value proposition that goes beyond being a habitual charity case.
And that is what the Philippines is — a habitual charity case.
@benign0
No one said that help is an entitlement… No one is asking No Data to help.
And like I said before the reward of helping those in dire strait is the feeling of pride, to feel good about yourself, the feeling of being a good guy. If you say that ” Extending help is a form of investment of one’s time/resources” then I’d say that you are investing in the mentioned reward. And yet No Data does not want this reward except material things like money (I assume). Calling them inferior , stupid etc. as the reason for not helping… Isn’t that snobbish?
But Filipinos are, in fact, stupid. Have you been living under a rock?
@benign0
Yes I agree, they generally are low iq people. But I would still help them…
@No Data:
“You’re just asking me to use my resources or efforts for others without anything in return, that’s inconsiderate.”
Huh?! Where did you get such moronic, stupid idea?
Before you even ask to be compensated, first you need to ask yourself who exactly is/are asking you for help. And what kind of help do you consider yourself capable of delivering?
@benign0:
Is it correct to say that Filipinos who say Filipinos are stupid are themselves also stupid, if we are talking about it as a collective?
(Should something we treat as a collective have some set of members, of that collective, seeking entitlements of exemptions?)
If the above premise is correct, then, let’s just call all ourselves as stupid. No ifs, ands, or buts. No reservations, restrictions, or excuses.
Please feel free to lend us your thoughts…
@benign0:
“And even in a world where we enjoy an abundance of people willing to help wretched Filipinos, it comes across as quite pathetic to be unable to present to the world a value proposition that goes beyond being a habitual charity case.
“And that is what the Philippines is — a habitual charity case.”
History begs to differ:
Opinions can be rude sometimes but it can never erase how to the Philippines saved the Jewish people from persecution when no country in the world would accept them during the second world war.
In fact, the Philippines did this deed nine times…
https://www.unhcr.org/ph/11886-9wavesrefugees.html
In spite of The Philippines, being a tropical asian country, it braved the cold winter of Korea to fight for its war in the 1950s. The Filipino infantry battalion combat team was the fifth largest force in the United Nations Force.
@Vlad that’s already history when Philippines was still strong. Philippines is a 3rd world crap now, a sick man of Asia and a backward country which is even worse than being stagnant. The Korean War is now in armistice which took effect decades ago. China is stronger than it was during Cold War. China has surpassed Russia now. If China and Philippines fight each other in a war now, Philippines stands no chance. All Philippines can do is hide behind its allies like Japan and the USA. Philippines is regressing in moral values. I don’t even know if morality and honor still exist there.
“To be serious: No one is obligated to help. It’s common courteous and benevolent to help. I like to think that it’s humankindness to not feel obligated to help but are helping nevertheless.”
Isn’t this an implication that we must help Filipinos? Let them fall because they’re incapable of helping themselves. I bash Filipinos because they deserve it. Helping costs resources, especially time which is why I decide which person, society or country deserves help.
Law enforcers and military personnel get compensated not only with money, but benefits too.
Also, Filipinos tend to ask for help by asking things like “What have you done for the country?” Or “What have you done for the people in need?”
Filipinos are not only stupid, they’re also lazy and greedy. Another reason why I don’t want to help Filipino society is because I don’t want to get betrayed after helping.
@No Data:
“Helping costs resources, especially time which is why I decide which person, society or country deserves help.”
Let’s put that to a test. Which person, society or country deserves help?
The funny thing with a statement of claim like this is its dubiousness to conformity… how to actualize what’s intended – especially coming from a pretender with a questionable record of credibility and capability – to prove that you have done, willing to or can actually do something like it in reality.
Hollow empty words, especially dishonest ones, don’t actually produce results.
Arrogant assertions elevate nothing or anything.
@No Data
“Isn’t this an implication that we must help Filipinos?”
We must help filipinos who are in dire strait If we want to be good guys. Ofcourse the size and the kind of help is all up to oneself.
“Let them fall because they’re incapable of helping themselves.”
I like to say: we should help them in a way so that they can be capable of helping themselves.
“I bash Filipinos because they deserve it. Helping costs resources, especially time which is why I decide which person, society or country deserves help.”
So it cost you more to help than to bash? So they deserve to be bashed because they are inferior, stupid etc.?
“Law enforcers and military personnel get compensated not only with money, but benefits too.”
Yes. But they do not expect something in return when they help, except what is written in their contract or whatever. Which is the reason you cannot use law enforcers and military personnel as your argument.
“Filipinos are not only stupid, they’re also lazy and greedy. Another reason why I don’t want to help Filipino society is because I don’t want to get betrayed after helping.”
I don’t like to get too zen-minded, but if you don’t expect something in return then you don’t get betrayed.
@BenThere
“We must help filipinos who are in dire strait If we want to be good guys. Ofcourse the size and the kind of help is all up to oneself.”
This looks like guilt tripping if you ask me. Guilt tripping won’t work with me.
“Yes. But they do not expect something in return when they help, except what is written in their contract or whatever. Which is the reason you cannot use law enforcers and military personnel as your argument.”
“So it cost you more to help than to bash? So they deserve to be bashed because they are inferior, stupid etc.?”
They deserve to be bashed because they’re stupid, lazy, rude, arrogant, disrespectful and have general disregard for the law. They also deserve to be bashed because they reward corruption and punish honor.
They already get something in return for their duties such as salaries and benefits as well as medals and promotions as well as power.
“I don’t like to get too zen-minded, but if you don’t expect something in return then you don’t get betrayed.”
So, you admit that Filipinos are selfish? Filipinos are the kind of people who will take your hand if you give them your finger. If you give them your hand, they’ll take your arm. Besides, why should they get mad if I refuse to help them? In that case, they’re just asking for help, so they’re bothering me, so they have no right to get mad if I refuse.
@No Data
I don’t look at it as guilt tripping… If you look at it that way, it’s up to you.
I would still help them regardless of your mentioned reasons.
But do they expect medals and promotions as well as power for their services? No. (I think we are talking past each other here)
Maybe filipinos are selfish. But I do not think they “are the kind of people who will take your hand if you give them your finger. If you give them your hand, they’ll take your arm.”.
No one said or alluded that they will or should get mad if you refuse to help them.
@No Dice
“Let’s put that to a test. Which person, society or country deserves help?”
Countries with low corruption such as US, Canada, Western Europe, Nordic Europe, Singapore, Australia, New Zealand and Japan are worthy of my praise and they deserve services. These countries are honorable.
@BenThere
“No one said or alluded that they will or should get mad if you refuse to help them.”
But you said “I don’t like to get too zen-minded, but if you don’t expect something in return then you don’t get betrayed.” so I get betrayed if I help them while expecting them to help me back. Remember that Filipinos are known to have crab mentality so they have no problem betraying other people.
@No Data
The sentence:
“if you don’t expect something in return then you don’t get betrayed”
is not the same as
“if you expect something in return then you get betrayed.”
since it’s not given that you will get betrayed. Even if filipinos are suffering from crab mentality, it’s not given that you will get betrayed. I think you generalize people a bit too much.
If you do help the entire filipino population, country or any individual filipino, do you really think that it’s a given that you would then be mistreated, rejected or ignored? I wonder if there are many more of your kind who thinks like that. Maybe that’s just it… You are like so many filipinos: arrogant, snobbish who cares not about the golden rule and who expects something in return when helping those in dire strait. Hence the status quo or decline in the country.
@No Data:
Let’s extend the test further then…
Why do you think those First World countries you mentioned, with strong economies, with controlled corruption, would even need help from someone like you?
How will you help them exactly? With your praise?
“Hello First World! You deserve my praise! Please welcome me.”
Will you feel betrayed if they cannot reciprocate that unsolicited praise from you for the simple reason and fact that you’re obviously not a part in any manner of their collective and that they only see you as entitled adamant third world Filipino brat forever jumping on the bandwagon of other people’s achievement for validation?
@No Dice now you’re just moving the goal post.
@BenThere
“If you do help the entire filipino population, country or any individual filipino, do you really think that it’s a given that you would then be mistreated, rejected or ignored? I wonder if there are many more of your kind who thinks like that.”
Filipinos are the kind of people who ask for more after you give them help because they have mendicant or beggar mentality.
“Maybe that’s just it… You are like so many filipinos: arrogant, snobbish who cares not about the golden rule and who expects something in return when helping those in dire strait. Hence the status quo or decline in the country.”
There we go with ad-hom. Arrogant you say? Tell that to Filipino society. The high power distance index is one proof of Filipino society’s toxic arrogance. In the US, a CEO doesn’t have any problem with his janitor calling him by his first name without referring to him as sir or his title. In Philippines, challenging the decisions of superiors is not welcome due to high PDI.
Oh, if you never give military personnel and law enforcers the promotion they deserve, I doubt that they’ll continue and they still get compensated for helping society.
I still have no reason to help the Filipino society let alone prioritize their needs over non-Filipinos.
@No Data
Because filipinos are arrogant does that mean that you cannot be arrogant? Ofcourse not. You are calling them arrogant etc then why is it not okay for me to call you arrogant etc? Do you feel hurt by it? Me calling you arrogant and so on is a logical consequence for what you said about them being inferior etc.
You were talking about expecting something in return for helping, and you used military personnel and law enforcers as your argument. Now you’re moving the goal post by saying: “Oh, if you never give military personnel and law enforcers the promotion they deserve, I doubt that they’ll continue and they still get compensated for helping society”. Still they do not EXPECT promotions and medals in return for what they do.
@No Data:
So what exactly are your answers to the specific questions raised? Nothing?
Eh, bakit sumagot ka pa?!
Talaga naman… ang mapagkunwaring Pinoy… parang aso, matangkad lang pag nakaupo.
@BenThere you’re wrong, it’s not moving the goal post, I’m using them as examples because they help people. If they don’t get compensated at all, then nobody will do their jobs.
Calling me arrogant during a debate is already ad hominem, you can’t even give good answers to why I should help an evil society like Filipino society who won’t help themselves without expecting something in return. The fact is helping someone consumes resources such as effort and time.
@No Data
Are you suffering from short term memory loss? You started out using them as an example for expecting something in return for helping. I told you already that except for what’s in their contract they do not expect medals, promotions. No one said that they don’t get compensated at all. Maybe you don’t remember that, or you are trying manipulate.
Yes, its adhominem. It’s also an obvious, logical deduction from what you are saying. Anyone with a clear mind would call you arrogant.
One reason why you should help is to feel good about yourself, to feel proud; To feel like a good guy. I thought that was clear. Another reason why you should help is the golden rule.
Now you say that they are evil… It’s a false premise you intentionally made to persuade others that you have an sound argument.
It is also a fact that bashing people also consumes resources such as effort and time. So it’s irrelevant that helping someone consumes resources such as effort and time. Otherwise you wouldn’t be here in GRP bashing people.
@No Data
“Countries with low corruption such as US, Canada, Western Europe, Nordic Europe, Singapore, Australia, New Zealand and Japan are worthy of my praise and they deserve services. These countries are honorable.”
I’m not surprised you’ll help people from the first world. After all, doing that will help you feel like a true world citizen, even though you’ll never be one.
I don’t know how old you are but if you are older than a teenager, your behavior is extremely immature.
Grow up, and do it fast.
@BenThere see, you admitted that it’s ad hominem. Resorting to ad hominem or personal insults against the person they’re arguing with is already a defeat in the argument. Smart people don’t do that.
My point is even law enforcers and military personnel get compensated.
Yes, Filipino society is evil because it is corrupt. You cannot be good and corrupt at the same time because corruption is evil. Remember that in Philippines, corruption is being rewarded and righteousness is being punished.
Bashing an arrogant and evil society is always better than helping them, especially if it humiliates their ego. Again, Filipino society is arrogant, their high power-distance index proves it.
Some people here in GRP sure are bias. When I bash the Philippines, some people get mad or get offended and they just resort to ad hominem while they’re silent when someone does the same to the US. Why? Am I not allowed to bash the Philippines and its people, but can do the same to non-Filipinos?
@No Data
When I look in the dictionary the definition shows that I did not use ad hominem. So I was wrong when I said that I used ad hominem. And the reasoning behind ad hominem is not always fallacious. So just because I called you arrogant and a snob does not entail that the argument used is a defeat.
They get compensated… only sometimes. They do not expect to be compensated nor do they get compensated everytime for helping. So you cannot use them as a valid example.
Again I believe you generalize a bit too much. Although I agree there are much corruption, I think it is not every aspect of that society that are corrupt/evil. So I think you are generalizing too much.
Your two questions, are they rhetorical questions?
@BenThere ad hominem is fallacious when used in debates.
“They get compensated… only sometimes.”
They get regular salaries and benefits, so they get regular compensation, not sometimes.
But Filipino society is corrupt in general.
My last 2 questions are not rhetorical. If people get mad or offended when their country gets bashed, then they should not bash other countries. Simple as that.
@No Data
We are definitely talking above and past each other. So much so that I’m getting tired… I’m not going to argue with you… Atleast for now I won’t post anything. Take care.
@No Data: “If people get mad or offended when their country gets bashed, then they should not bash other countries. Simple as that.”
So, you mean there’s a protocol when people try to engage with you?
No Data is hassle-free to bash a country.
If people get offended by it, they shouldn’t bash other countries.
What if people don’t get offended, can they can go ahead and bash other countries?
You give yourself no pre-condition, yet, you impose a condition to your targeted party. You get to throw your ad hominems wildly on a grander scale but you reprimand others that they’re not allowed to do the same?
Simple as that? It’s simply crazy!
(Isn’t the norm, every action receives a reaction?!)
This kind of mentality… only from No Data’s school of critical-thinking…
@No Dice
“So, you mean there’s a protocol when people try to engage with you?
No Data is hassle-free to bash a country.
If people get offended by it, they shouldn’t bash other countries.”
So, are you confirming bias and double standards here? I get insulted here when I bash Philippines while nobody gets mad here when someone bashes the US or any other Western country. This is also a problem with Filipino society, double standards in terms of bashing and insulting countries. Double standard is always bad
Filipinos always frame their political arguments/positions within the context of who they are loyal to. The notion of an idea, argument, or position standing on the basis of logical merit seems to be alien to the Filipino mind.
I heard that massive objects in outer space are being dodged or redirected to prevent collision with this planet. If ever there’s an ounce of truth in that story, one can’t be thankful enough. Do we deserve that kind of help? No one here knows. But I think that can count as an act of mercy.
It looks like GRP is not the place for promoting any Filipino sense of nationalism. Ironically, it is only one of a few sites dedicated to discussing Filipino issues.
If leaders are aware of persisting and existing problems, why the hell aren’t things getting any better?
1) If solving problems runs into conflict with their personal interests, guess which one will be sacrificed…
2) Solving problems will reduce their relevance and ability to grandstand in the next political cycle…
@Voss the answers are simple. The problems doesn’t affect them and they want the problems to persist.
@Voss “Ironically, it is only one of a few sites dedicated to discussing Filipino issues.”
If you establish a forum-like site dedicated to discussing filipino issues then I will join. Just say the word.
@No Data:
“Bashing an arrogant and evil society is always better than helping them, especially if it humiliates their ego.”
It only becomes better if the intent really is to achieve a desired collective cultural change.
It can only be acceptable if the aim is to incite to some action or true course of major or overall cultural elevation.
If the instigator isn’t being true and honest and being viewed as just another arrogant and stupid member of a subset, no different from the larger whole, even celebrating a counterfeit uniqueness of not being part of the problem, projecting excuses of entitlement, then, it will not happen.
Indeed, it will not come from a bogus hypocrite who lacks some form of credibility and clearly displays a questionable understanding of its social ramifications and whose dubious end game is rudely directed only to one’s mere selfish and arrogant personal validation.