The Catholic Church in the Philippines has become one of the largest institutions in our country. One can even say that it had a hand in the way our country came to be all those centuries ago when the Spanish first came to our shores. However, what I can’t help but notice is how the Church still seems to have considerable control over the Philippines both in political and social terms. Look, I think I’ve mentioned before that in other countries, the Catholic Church is happy to take the backseat and be a kind of moral adviser to the people rather than a governing body that can somehow still influence the government and people according to its whim.
Over the years, I’ve had a growing number of issues with the local branch of the Catholic Church and I’m not going to hide it anymore. Truth be told, I think I’ve already published a good number of articles that openly attack the Church what with their shenanigans here in the Philippines. But as of late, I’m afraid I can no longer hold back what with the news I’ve been hearing of lately.
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Okay, there has been a reported increase of HIV positive people in the Philippines. HIV, ladies and gentlemen, is nothing to laugh at. It is a dangerous disease and what cure there is for it is extremely expensive and will probably be out of reach for majority of our citizenry. But what does the local Catholic Church tell us?
“Ooh, contraceptives are bad because you’re getting in the way of God’s plan!”
I have never heard of anything more ridiculous in my life!
I mean yes, there are those who say that the Church won’t allow for the use of contraceptives in order to encourage our youths to be more “responsible”. The problem here is that shouldn’t it be up to parents to teach their children on how to be responsible? Besides, isn’t properly planning one’s family actually more “responsible” than simply letting them be and risk letting them get STDs like HIV or simply breed like rabbits?
I seriously don’t know anymore…
What’s worse is that if the Church was serious about making our people moral and responsible, why is it the MTRCB which is also largely supported by the Church not willing to put a stop to over-romantic media in the Philippines which only further encourages the youths to copulate and fornicate like there’s no tomorrow. Now they say they removed anime from local TV channels because the former allegedly contains immoral elements that they don’t want children to see. While this may be true as shows like Tenjho Tenge and Air Gear aren’t things we want our youths to see, are the shows they replaced them with any better? Are the many teleseryes whose central theme is forbidden and obsessive love any better than anime with explicit images and themes?
You guys tell me!
It would be more believable if they replaced afternoon anime with educational programs like Epol Apple, Sineskwela and Math Tinik…
I HAVE RETURNED TO LAY WASTE TO OUR ENEMIES!
I’m not sure if braindead teleseryes encourage teenagers to fornicate. They’ll do that regardless, without any encouragement.
But yeah, the Catholic Church, presiding over one of the most immoral nations on the planet. This is a country where thieving, prostitution, or child abuse are considered solid career choices, defrauding your family is so normal that it’s actually legal, and murder is an accepted solution for resolving disputes. Got to be something amiss there, right?
Catholicism in the Philippines is a horrible corruption of a basically enlightened religion (Christianity). All the good bits have been repurposed for nefarious ends (eg., the idea of forgiveness) and a load of bad bits added (such as the aforementioned ban on contraception, which is mentioned nowhere, at all, in the Bible). Add in the blatant idolatry and mystic mumbo-jumbo (touching ‘holy’ artifacts for healing) and you’ve got a guaranteed recipe for all kinds of messed-up thinking.
Can’t say it better
Hahaha…. I pity your understanding….
When Teddy “Dirty Finger” Locsin (Cory’s spokesperson and speechwriter[he made Cory’s speech before the US Congress] ) revealed in his program Karambola together with Jonathan dela Cruz 2 or 3 years ago that Namfrel’s JoeCon deliberately stopped the quick count at 80% because the Cory group were so afraid the the votes coming from the provinces would overcome Cory’s lead, it confirmed the suspicion of not a few that indeed the Catholic Church hierarchy in conspiracy with the Cory group were cooking something sinister- to remove Marcos at all cost no matter how bloody.
As long as the Filipinos believe that the Bishops and Priests and Nuns are infallible, the Catholic Church will always have considerable control over the Philippines both in political and social terms.”
Oh my….. Try to study 1st….. So that you dont look like a dumb ass…… Infallible? Try to read what the catholic is teachings….
I’m Catholic but I’m at least honest enough to acknowledge of the inconsistency of Catholicism. What they have in orthodoxy ( fundamental doctrines) contradicts so highly in their orthopraxy (practice of doctrines)
Contradicts the Bible too.
But hey, as long as you use some big words, that makes it all OK!
Filipinos: doing as they’re told like good little slaves since 1521.
Church create this possible christian books:
– Authority of Vatican and the Home Church
– The 10 Commandments
– Are we dust since God
– “Thou Shall no Have other Gods Before Me”
– Mary and Jesus
– What is Salvation?
– Are We Born To Die?
Sino Ako?
– Ang Diyos at ang Makasalanan
Ang Templo ng Diyos
– Ang Sampung Utos
– Ang Kabilang Buhay
– Ang Sandalyas ni Hesus
— Ang Pulubi at ang Mayaman- Ang pagibig sa kapwa
–
–
I do not believe in Organized Religions. They are the cause of our wars, hatred, prejudices, terrorism, slavery, brainwashing of people, etc…
The Churches in Organized Religions become rich. While their members are poor…
The Roman Catholic Church has phedophile priests, who were convicted in court of law.
In our country, the Priest, Bishops, Archbishops, are politicized and are active in supporting political parties.
They support the Aquino Cojuangco political axis, who are Feudal Oligarchs , like themselves !
What has happened to their duties, to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ ?
They are the Jewish Parishees of this modern day. If you read the Christian Bible…
All religion should stay out of politics !
@424Hyden007Toro99878.999. Any religion can be into politics as long as its dogma is open to rational criticism. Anyone can create its own religion as long as it can attract followers and not coerce them to believing.
This world is free and an open society. The problem with religion is simply its leaders think they are preaching absolute eternal truths.
The obligation of the intellectual is to demolish these absolute eternal truth peddled by these religious leaders in the open market of ideas.
Only one rule of conduct that approximately absolute eternal truth which is universally accepted, that is, the practice of the negative form of the Golden Rule:
“Do not do unto others what you do not others done on you. ”
If writers of this blog enjoy calling other people idiots, well they should also enjoy when those other people call them morons in return. lol
@Ngek Ngek:
Okay tit for tat, not tit for tit !
How about the Church of Satan.
In the State of Florida, U.S.A….some Devil Worshipers, placed a Satanic Symbol, next to a Manger Scene (Belen)… maybe these Satanists, can be in politics , also.
I think , in the Philippines, with the quality of the leaders, we have: they are already in Philippine politics !
Do you agree ?
Ngek Ngek,
“Do not do unto others what you do not others done on you.”
How does one know how others want to be treated? The obvious way is to ask them, but this cannot be done if one assumes they have not reached a particular and relevant understanding.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule#Criticism_of_the_Golden_Rule
@Robert Haigton I have read your link. But to make it clear there are two version of the Golden Rule, the positive and the negative. The positive is indeed dangerous as seen by Kant and other philosophers. A suicide bomber for Allah should be eliminated from the start because he brings you to heaven or hell without your consent. For these terrorists, the Putin Way is the only way !
When Pakistan reimposed its death penalty on heinous crimes, suicide bombings tremendously decrease. When Putin became more brutal to Chechnya separatists acts of terrorism on Russian soil, Russian supremacy on Chechnya reigned.
With the assassination of the Russian ambassador to Turkey, we have to expect a brutal Putin retaliation on the terrorists and their relatives. Putin is just doing what his predecessors like Stalin to Islamic militants.
No wonder DU30’s idol is Putin. lol
Ngek,
All the countries you mention, are countries I never want to live in. But thats another conversation (discussion) and ergo is outside the scope of the article.
Personally, the expression (golden rule) flies a bit over my head (both positive and negative).
The golden rule translates for me like things I encounter here (GRP) quite often. Many people here say: “I respect your view”, “I respect your religion” and then the conversation ends. It kills all conversation(s).
Shouldnt people (try to) convince me that I am wrong when I say and do stupid things? The truth may hurt a little (or even much) but at least by changing my behavior and my mindset, it will make me a person coming closer to perfection???? Or are we gonna debate about what perfection is? “my perfection is not your perfection” something like that.
Do you really think, much will change in USA now Trump is president for those people who voted for him because they are angry? No, nothing will change for them.
@Robert Haighton I participate in this kind of discussion not to aim to win over anybody to my side but to test my idea or an idea I picked up somewhere if it is nearer to the truth than another’s. I believe any open-minded reasonable reader would judge for himself which idea (supposedly better to his standard) he will eventually adopt, and once adopted as his own will try to test it with other ideas.
I believe that a theory/idea/belief/assertion/conjecture/claim is corroborated not by supporting facts but by the absence of refuting facts.
Of course, to claim perfection or possession of truth, or debating who has it is megalomania. The most reasonable objective is to test our idea vis-a-vis another idea and see objectively which one is nearer to the truth. That is how science works and science is the search for truth.
As I said again and again, the role of the intellectual/reasonable/open-minded is to demolish the pretension of those claiming possession of eternal absolute truth be they the Roman Catholic Church hierarchy or the China Politburo or Soros.
Ngek,
I do agree with you.
I am sure I sometimes have a narrow-minded/close-minded vision/view about certain topics (e.g. letting transgenders use any toilet they want).
‘Of course, to claim perfection …’
I will never say/claim I am perfect but I strive for perfection. I can not simply tolerate my own flaws and do nothing about them. As if they cant be changed.
I do not believe in something called ‘eternal absolute truth’. Outcomes do change. Even within science.
Finally, I am always open for other persons’s opinions especially in fields I am not good at/in.
PS: have a blast with Christmas and best wishes for 2017 (and beyond).
Hurt is a bruise on the outside. Harm is a bruise on the inside.
The first law of nature is self-preservation. Cut off that which may harm you. But if it is worth preserving, and is meaningful, nourish it and have no regrets. Ultimately, this is true living and love of self…from within.
@Robert Haighton :
Let us respect each other’s beliefs. What is food to you may be poison to me !
We have all individual differences. And, we have to respect these individual differences, also.
Nobody is perfect, except God (if you believe in a God)…I believe, we are here on this Planet Earth, to perfect ourselves.
Pres Elect Donald J. Trump will be inaugurated on January 20, 2017. That day, will begin his administration.
Pres Trump, promised, a lot of things, to the American voters. It remains to be seen, if these promises will be fulfilled, for the good of America; and to the world, as a whole…
On the other hand, life goes on. The sun will rise tomorrow…we will continue to earn for a living (except, if you are a rich person and does not earn for a living)…
In our country the Philippines; the crooks will still be stealing from our taxpayers’ money…I will be remitting, some of my OFW earnings to my relatives, for their Christmas gifts.
As a Christian…Robert, I greet you:
Merry Christmas and a Very Prosperous New Year ! May 2017, be a good year for all of us !
Dear Hyden,
I dont have to respect anyone’s belief nor religion. Because it is stupid to respect people who believe in fairytales and myths. But hey, I have got news for you: I wont kill you for that stupidity.
I can not imagine that ‘my’ bread, butter and cheese is your poison. You may not like bread, butter and cheese but its certainly for nobody poison.
‘Nobody is perfect, except God (if you believe in a God)…I believe, we are here on this planet earth, to perfect ourselves.’
No, I dont believe in a god. It would be an insult to do so.
‘Pres Trump, promised, a lot of things, to the American voters. It remains to be seen, if these promises will be fulfilled, for the good of America; and to the world, as a whole.’
Have you been aware who he appointed as head for the various departments? All people from the elite class. Maybe he will do something about the US infrastructure (it is really needed). But it will be to no benefit for the people who voted for him. For them not much will change. Pls mark my words.
As a human being … Hyden, I greet you:
A happy Xmas and a very prosperous new year! 2017, will be a good year for some of us!
@Robert Haighton:
I can believe, that the Moon is made of Cheese; and howl at the moon…and, it is nobody’s business.
What works for you; may not work for me.
I was brought up as a Filipino. You were brought up as a Dutch…
Anyway, I don’t like Dutch Cheese. You may had feasted on Dutch Cheese. However, no matter, how I try, I cannot eat it !
I am allergic to Dutch Cheese !
Give Pres. Trump, a chance to prove himself…will you ?
You maybe a Grinch…I am surprised you greeted me : Happy Xmas and very prosperous New Year !
Let us have “Dutch Treats”, on our beliefs !
Then try some cheddar cheese.
‘I was brought up as a Filipino. You were brought up as a Dutch.’
I do have a Dutch passport and my mother’s tongue is Dutch, but I dont consider myself to be Dutch. You can burn the Dutch national flag and I wont get angry about it. I am not that patriotic and a nationalist. It scares the hell out of me to be one.
Why is the RCChurch and its clergy not paying taxes? She owns and runs bis businesses and so expensive schools and hospitals, etc. Please initiate the proper moves for their eventual taxation, sit.
True, if they are meddling in politics(w/c they shouldnt)they gotta pay tax…
They got schools(used to brainwash students and turn them into hypocrites so becareful/if possible dont enroll your kids runned by priests/nuns).
They got 3rd party shares in businisses like mining, etc.
@Robert Haighton:
Whatever you want to be is none of my business…
If you don’t want to be a Dutch, and is afraid to be one…so be it.
However, you cannot jump out of your nationality as a Dutch…the same way, I cannot jump out of my own skin !
Okay, let us settle this: let us say , you are an Extra Terrestrial, from the Constellation: Sirius…deal or no deal ?
Dear Hyden,
I know you dont like me and I know you dont like what I stand for. Thats all okay. I wont and dont kill you for it and I certainly dont hate you for that.
‘If you don’t want to be a Dutch, and is afraid to be one…so be it. However, you cannot jump out of your nationality as a Dutch…the same way, I cannot jump out of my own skin!’
What I mean(t) to say is this (and I said it somewhere else in another GRP article to someone else).
Even though one is living in a poor 3rd world country that person doesnt need to behave and have a mindset that equals a poor 3rd world person. Or in other words, even though a person lives there, that person can raise the bar and rise to the occassion. And not once but constantly. In that way, one is not a Filipino. Be different (but not being different because of being different but being genuinely different bec you are different).
I am doing that within my own country and while hving a Dutch passport.
I dont know what I (a person) have (has) to do to get/obtain a Filipino passport, but having a Filipino passport doesnt make me (him/her) a true, genuine Filipino.
@Robert Haighton:
I like every blogger in the GRP. I don’t like :the trolls; the YellowTards and the deceitful/hypocritical bloggers, who pretend to know everything.
I like you…you are a pragmatist. I am a realist pragmatist.
We differ in viewpoints, like religion. You are an Atheist. I am a Christian, who don’t believe in Organized Religion. My religion are the teachings of Jesus Christ and Humanity !
I am from a third world country. However, I work and was educated in the university level in a first world country, like the U.S.A.
Let us say, I raised the “bar” of my mindset , consciousness and education, to a first world country level…
There are some good/advantage in being a Dutch. The same way as there are some good/bad/advantage of being a Filipino…
Filipino bloggers in the GRP have already accepted you as one of them.
You are more than welcome here in our country…we are hospitable people !
Dear Thaddeus,
you keep on blaming the church. Why? I dont get aids/hiv because of a church, I do get it because I myself am doing stupid things.
It is 2016, the information is out there. You cant get away with it by blaming the church (or TV series).
Its about time you start to get angry at your fellow country men and women.
The church will defend its own preachings for centuries to come.
Do you really expect them to say: ‘Okay guys, you can use all kinds of contraceptions”?
Do you really think, they will allow gay/lesbian church marriages anytime soon?
Do you really think, they will allow you to coveth thy next door neighbour wife.
Come on, I as atheist, know exactly how it works. Why dont you? The church wont move an inch.
Why are you waiting for some kind of permission granted to you by the church? Why dont you go your own way?
The sooner people will stop listening to the church, the sooner they will lose power. And no, I am not advocating Sodom & Gomorrah.
Easier said than done. Considering that the Catholic Church here in the Philippines insist in shoving their teachings down young Filipinos’ tiny and easily manipulated throats.
Yes, we as adults are free to make decisions based on facts easily accessible through the internet. But if we grew up in an environment where the church and its teachings were deemed as necessities in your everyday life, it’s hard to shake that off in your adulthood. I was lucky enough to grow up with a secular father. But had my father been a “god-loving” and “god-fearing” man like my mother, I may have ended up following the church blindly no matter how academically intelligent I deemed myself to be.
This is not a church that spreads their “love” and “good news” to people willing to listen and then wait for people to come through their chapel doors. This is a church that is hellbent in making sure the citizens in this country follow them without question.
The Catholic Church will stick to their teachings, as they should. I just wished they didn’t shove their teachings down our throats and expect to have special treatment and privileges in state affairs.
This place already looks like Sodom and Gomorrah.
Just looks? I thought already is.
The church has a very deep influence in Filipino life. That is why Filipinos cannot just stop listening to them. This organization has been with us for centuries thus an integral part of Filipino culture.
Also the problem with you atheists, many of you act like you know the actual truth thus have an arrogant conviction no different from a religious fanatic. Have your studied and understand square inch of objective reality? The truth is none of us have the answers and know very little of this universe. Lacking objective data yet proclaiming they know the truth shows that you are no better then a religious person who filters their world view in glasses of their beliefs and assumptions.
Dear Ponse,
I am in no way in search of the truth. The truth brings me nowhere. All I need to know is that 1 + 1 = 2 (and sometimes its 3, also called synergy).
Am I preaching atheism? God forbid, no. I would miserably fail in doing so.
But a little bit more criticism wont hurt anybody. Now you make it sound like that everybody in your country are blind followers. That will keep the church as powerfull as it always has been.
Now, personally, I dont expect the church to change. So the change has to come from within the – blind – followers. Paradox here?
The Catholic Church really need to clean up their own house. Seriously. I have personally sponsored the education of several very poor children, many of them ended up wanting to become Clergy. Alright.
I preferred them to become engineers or accountants (we need more of those here in the Philippines) but heck I let them pick their vocation. Priest can do a lot of good too I guess. After several years in the seminary (all the 5 boys I sponsored are from different seminaries around the Philippines) all of them would lament to me the unChristlike attitudes and hijinks of their respected superiors and senior priests.
If the devil is real, he is sure doing a number on our local clergy.
i knew someone who left the seminary because he personally witnessed fornication between priests and nuns.
Well they are just humans and the temptations are morethan yours….
Its normal but the church will still prevail…
And you’re another apologist to evil I guess. Why don’t you call out and expose these evil people? Why are you trying to defend what they do? Is that Christ like? Christ would never excuse the self righteous hypocrisy of his followers. You know excusing them would let your churches die right? You’d make more apostates than gaining followers.
Dear Thaddeus,
You once said here that you are a nurse. So, I take it that you – of all people – know how we do get hiv/aids and STDs/STIs. And its not even a rocket science.
So how – on this god’s green earth – can you blame the church and TV series?
You should know better and stop blaming and stop criticizing the church. We people do it upon ourselves.
We have reckless sex (not using contraceptives);
We use dirty and used needles (for injecting drugs).
So, I dont see any church or TV series in this equation. Its us, we, who do it and nobody else.
So, please, next time, blame the Philippine people who contracted those diseases.
Thank god (no pun intended), I dont need to worry that much IF I had hiv. I can buy medicine and live a 100 years.
I suppose you’re right but they aren’t exactly helping are they…
Did they ever … ?
YES< you have just chosen not to see it. The Catholic Church is WORLD WIDE.What you see in the Failippines is a tiny bit of what they do. They ffed prisoners in Mexican prison's because the gov't doesn't, thought I'd add that as a tiny example.
Robert, you kinda miss the point. 80%+ of Filipinos assert that they are “Catholics”. What this means in practice is that they’ll do whatever the Church tells them to do. Filipinos are compliant, gullible people amyway; throw religion or God in the mix and you’ve got total control. Catholicism was pretty much invented for that very purpose – and stunningly successful it’s been, too.
About the only thing most Filipinos can quote about their religion is “go forth and multiply”, because that’s virtually the only thing the CC is endlessly blathering about. I suppose the CC must have mentioned the Ten Commandments or the Seven Deadly Sins at some point, but the Filipino apparently got a bit confused and thought the Sin list was something you had to work through, like a checklist.
Robert please dont force/compare your country’s values to PH as they are totally different…
PH is a 3rd world country thanks to the Yellows and their compatriots in 1986 that includes the church(CBCP) led by the greatest “SINNER” Cardinal Sin who wants the country kept as a 3rd world while they sat/enjoy their luxurious lives at the expense of the people of the country.
4,
Excuse me? My country doesnt have values. So, I am forcing nothing.
Robert, what I’m trying to say is that your country is far ahead than with a stucked up 3rd world country PH so it’s not worth comparing…
Right now the current President is fixing things up to cope/atleast keep up with current world developments but comes the Hypocrite PH Catholic Church(CBCP) detrimenting the government(politicizing) rather than teach the people God’s Teachings together with their ally Yellows.
In PH Catholic Churches are “politicaly” used to brainwash people, they promote hate and rebelion rather than forgiveness and peacefulness far opposite than what God and his Apostles Preached.
They don’t even pay taxes so they should have no right to intervene with government affairs other than teach God’s Good Will.
4,
” … your country is far ahead …”
I dont know if you followed my comments here, but that same 55 year old pinay said to me that ‘my country is wrong’ when I updated her about the laws in my country.
So, its about how one looks at it, right?
Having said that, those liberal laws were not given. My parents and their parents fought for those ‘rights’. They protested and marched to the government building and demanded change.
I dont see that happen in PH anywhere soon.
“the current President is fixing things up to cope…”
Your current president isnt fixing anything. He is okay-ing blind killing of drugs addicts. A typical 3rd world approach how to ‘solve’ (get rid of) a problem.
He would have some balls, if he dares to change some laws and fight the RCC/INC (seperation between state and church/religion).
I dont see that happen in a long shot. So for me Duterte is a coward. Change, my ass. He is cutting corners. Taking the easy way.
That is the problem with some Filipino’s, they lack critical thinking/logic even in religious belief to which they easily get swayed by the corrupt priests in PH.
Ever since the invasion of PH by Imperialist Spaniards , the church has been used as means of “Propaganda” and “Mind Control” even upto now they are basically against the Government’s changes in Certain Policies(like decreasing over population or spread of sexual related deseases specially HIV), EJK?(seriously the government itself would never order it unless they are ninja/scalawag Polices), Hate, Rebelion, Activism(seriuosly they are making those churc followers disobey the Law and disgrace a body that has already been buried even of no Law prohibits/has been broken)
Change is difficult even the change from 1987 Oligarch Constitution to the Pushed Federal Government will take too long or may not even happen since the executive branch had alot of opposition who are against change and only wants the country the same as previous administrations even paying sums of money to groups of people just rally.
Whether thr President have balls or not with alot of oppositions it won’t be easy.
4,
I cant help but notice that many people here keep on blaming 3rd parties:
– the corrupt priests
– a lot of oppositions
With all that in mind, I would really start being suspicious of everything and be a lot more cautious when it comes to my own life. But what I see in your country, is exactly the opposite (increasing cases of HIV, increasing cases of teenage pregnancies, increasing cases of procreation among people who cant really afford it.
Its funny that you mention all that. My ‘loving’ 55 year old pinay also said to me the following: “is everything revolving around money?”
A bit strange remark for someone who is (financially) supporting her 85 year old mom with paying for her medicines and other medical checkups.
It seems to me that people dont understand the concept of living. Living requires money. Unless of course all services and all goods are free in PH.
Why is there a lot of opposition against Duterte? Because he only won the elections by 39,01% of all the votes and 60,99% didnt vote for him. The majority did NOT vote for him.
Sure they do, you just don’t like them or refuse to see them.
Marius,
I wished I was missing the point(s) bec then I could tell you ‘my apologies, Marius, you’re right’ but I am not missing the point at all.
People have to learn to doubt religion, doubt the bible, doubt the church, its leaders (incl the vatican) and then start going their own way. A bible doesnt give any practical solutions. It will keep people dumb and ignorant. But thats not what I read here in GRP by our so beloved friend Grimwald. So Grimwald, thinks he is intelligent – afraid to criticize his own people – so its easier to fight (for him) an unwinnable fight against the church. Hence, the people are safe.
Mr. Grimwald has to learn and has to accept that actually the people are stupid and that the church will NEVER butch, not an inch.
My point is this: when was the last time, the church (vatican) gave in on something?
The only time/moment, they may give in on something is when they see and realize that people start to turn their back on the church. Bec then they will see that they are losing their flock. Nobody wants to play a match/game in front of empty stands/tiers.
With this, I am not saying people have to become agnost or atheist, but ‘blocking’ a friend, sometimes might help. Because the church (the ‘friend’) is not helping you, ever.
Marius, my country once was – similar to the Philippines – overwhelmingly religious. But that changed. So, I know what I am talking about. And now, the church lost its power completely. Both in politics as in the society. We are finally free.
I disagree. The Netherlands became a successful world power primarily because of its religion. The country had a huge role in breaking the political power of a corrupt and violent Catholic Church in Europe. Calvinism became the doctrine of choice in the 16th century and survives today in US culture. Some historians argue that this explains why the US, uniquely among overtly-religious countries, became (and remains) economically successful.
While you might think you’re “free” , the fact is that the beliefs of Calvinism – such as respect for your fellow man – are deeply embedded in your national consciousness. Such ideas do not come out of nowhere, and they are certainly not a modern invention.
Marius,
‘respect for your fellow man’ =>
Although our/my nieghbours may be jews, catholic, protestant or whatever, we dont go on a rampage and kill them. And our government doesnt kill drug-users, traffickers and drug-barons. Personally, I dont think it has anything to do with being ‘Calvinistic’. It has more to do with living a private and anonymous lives. Many people dont (even) know who and what their neighbours are. They simply dont care.
Anyway, my point again here is that nothing will change inside the Philippines if the Filipinos wait for some kind of permission granted by the PH catholic church.
Compared to people with a religious signature, I do consider myself to be free and I am free. All I have to do is abide to the laws (or trying to get away with something, I did against the law).
Let me give you a simple example:
In the Republic of Ireland, abortion is illegal. As you know Ireland is still an overwhelmingly religious country. Not only the people but also their laws. Now what do you think? Do women accept their faith/fate? No. Those who can afford it, go to England and have an abortion there.
Take matters in your own hands !!!!
“A bible doesnt give any practical solutions. It will keep people dumb and ignorant.”
I’m no bible expert (and I’m not talking here of organized religion either) but curious to know how exactly, Mr. Robert?!
If The Bible teaches us to honour thy father and thy mother or love our fellow men or not to kill each other, how does it make us dumb?
And how about when the Bible does refer to natural phenomena…being consistently accurate, how does it makes us ignorant?
“The Bible also speaks of God as “hanging the earth upon nothing,” or he “suspends earth in the void,” according to The New English Bible. (Job 26:7) In view of the knowledge available in 1600 B.C.E., roughly when those words were spoken, it would have taken a remarkable man to assert that a solid object can remain suspended in space without any physical support. … Aristotle himself rejected the concept of a void, and he lived over 1,200 years later!”
“Another example we can consider is that the earth’s waters undergo a cyclic motion called the water cycle, or the hydrologic cycle. Put simply, water evaporates from the sea, forms clouds, precipitates onto the land, and eventually returns to the sea. The oldest surviving non-Biblical references to this cycle are from the fourth century B.C.E. However, Biblical statements predate that by hundreds of years. For example, in the 11th century B.C.E., King Solomon of Israel wrote: “All the rivers run into the sea, yet the sea is not full. To the place from which the rivers come, to there and from there they return again.”—Ecclesiastes 1:7, The Amplified Bible.”
Science and the Bible—Do They Really Contradict Each Other?
http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2005241
Copernicus,
‘If the bible teaches us to honour thy father and thy mother …’
The other day, I spoke with a 55 year old pinay who told me she still needs her mom (in her 80s) for guidance.
She didnt explain me exactly what she meant by ‘guidance’ but whether she meant how to interpret a bible verse or how to respond to matters concerning daily life, at that age (55) you really need to have the answers ready. She is not a child anymore.
If/when she is in a situation, she dont have any clue what to do, and then still need to talk to her mom first then …..
If you (lets say, also older than 25) and I have s conversation and you tell me “pls hold, I first need to ask my 85 year old mother” then something is really wrong.
I am also no bible expert, but if it says that it is forbidden to wear/use condoms then I will say: ‘well, lets see about that’.
I am also no bible expert, but if it says that it is forbidden to have an abortion then I will say: ‘well, lets see about that’.
I really miss that kind of approach.
Pls enlighten me:
“and I’m not talking here of organized religion either”
Is there a religion, that is not organized?
As far as I know (but I can be wrong) every religion has a book (bible, quran), has a building (church, mosque, temple) and has blind followers.
“Is there a religion, that is not organized?”
I just thought we’re talking about the bible and NOT religion! The Bible is different from organized religion!
“…whether she meant how to interpret a bible verse or how to respond to matters concerning daily life, at that age (55) you really need to have the answers ready.”
You’re assuming that the “55 year old pinay” that you have spoken to is like the rest. We are not! (It’s not that the “55 year old pinay” doesn’t have a mind of her own. It’s a cultural thing, I suppose! It’s like when Gina Lopez was asked by Pres. Duterte to be Secretary of the Philippines’ Department of Environment and Natural Resources (DENR). Ms Lopez’ reply, before accepting the offered position, was that she still needs to consult about it with her family.)
Again, I am no bible expert, but, so I heard, when you read scriptures from the bible you have to consider certain things: Who’s talking? To whom it was being said? When was it being said? Was it being said literal or not?
(Maybe that’s why a lot of people are saying that many times that the bible contradicts itself. What’s forbidden in the Old Testament becomes no longer forbidden in the New Testament – like the forbidden fruit!)
BTW, “…Galileo affirmed his strong faith in the Bible as the inspired Word of God. He also argued that the Scriptures were written for ordinary people and that Biblical references to the apparent movement of the sun were not to be interpreted literally.”
Now about that statement, please enlighten me also, I’m open-minded! But please…be specific about what exactly!
“A bible doesn’t give any practical solutions. It will keep people dumb and ignorant.”
Copernicus,
In a way I understand that Mrs. Lopez wants to consult with her hubby and maybe her kids. It can have a great impact especially if one has to move from one city to another or when her current job is a typical ‘9-to-5’ one while the new job requires more flexibility (not a ‘9-to-5’ attitude). On the other hand, this may be a ‘one/once in a lifetime’ offer with quite some perks (and power). So, I think, I can make that decision on my own.
“Now about that statement, please enlighten me also, I’m open-minded! But please…be specific about what exactly!
“A bible doesn’t give any practical solutions. It will keep people dumb and ignorant.”
The way I see the bible is as follow:
– One has to do this and he will rewared with ending up in heaven.
– If one doesnt follow the rules, then he will end up in hell.
There is no in-between. There is not something like: okay, you dont want kids bec you are poor, then you can always use contraceptives.
So, I will make that decision on my own. I dont need a bible to tell me how I must run and live my own life.
If I cant afford kids, then I wont make them.
If I can afford kids, but still dont want kids, I still wont make them.
The bible nor religion(s) do not offer me a choice. So, I have to make that choice myself. I am the one who is responsible for the decisions I make. Not you, not a church, not a bible. Only I am responsible !!!! And that is not a rocket science. But Mr. Grimwald wants to put all responsibilty and accountability at the church for the things I am doing. It doesnt make sense and it is NOT logical.
And that is what I am trying to say and tell to Mr. Grimwald. You cant put the blame on a 3rd party.
If I contract HIV or if I get pregnant while being a teenager or when I have already 6 kids (god forbid) then its my stupidity.
“I am also no bible expert, but if it says that it is forbidden to wear/use condoms then I will say: ‘well, lets see about that’.
I am also no bible expert, but if it says that it is forbidden to have an abortion then I will say: ‘well, lets see about that’.
I really miss that kind of approach.”
The Bible, Mr. Haighton, as Life’s Guide Book to a certain extent is just like the Law of the Land of any state. And we as People were given our free will. It’s really up to us in the end whether or not to follow!
If the Law of the Land says that it is forbidden to drink beer then you will say: ‘well, lets see about that’.
If the Law of the Land says that it is forbidden to smoke cigarettes then you will say: ‘well, lets see about that’.
It’s just the same!
When Marcos left in February 1986, the Philippine population was only 55 million same as that of Thailand who are more or less same land area. At that time, Thailand was considered our sister country because of it.
After EDSA86, the Roman Catholic Church hierarchy in the country has its almost a dictatorial sway on the government on population encouraging Filipinos to breed like rabbits.
Thanks to the pontificating Church people, we are now 110 million Filipinos leaving behind Thailand with only 70 millions. We are now the world’s largest supplier of foreign workers mostly domestic helpers and next to the Mexicans in the number of TNTs in the USA !!! lol
You can pray and believe in a Creator or God or Higher Power, without being a member of an Organized Religion.
Our ancestors, ancient Filipinos, were Animists. They worshiped nature…they had no churches, mosques or temples. They had no priests, pastors, imams , etc…they had no Bibles, Korans, or any religious books.
They believed in a Higher Power, and they worshiped his creation !
The Planet Earth was taken cared of in their times…and his creation was taken cared of also…no degradation of nature, no pollution…
The filth our own people are creating for themselves is horrifying.
You can break the cycle of indoctrination if you stop dragging your children to church or stop to enroll them in Catholic schools. Stop to buy into these idiotic and ridiculous traditions and customs as Baptismal, et cetera.
Tell your children from young age onwards that Religion is stupid and explain why.
Even so, what you are today is a product of a few hundred years of history. The fact remains that you don’t see your neighbour as someone to be exploited, stolen from, or brought down.
The Filipino likewise is a product of 400 years of slavery and oligarchy. People who “took matters into their own hands” were probably taken out back and killed. The result was textbook dysgenics: the obedient, bovine idiots were allowed to breed, and the quick-witted troublemakers were culled.
The Catholic Church are the Filipino’s masters, and telling him to defy them is pointless. It’s impossible. Getting Filipinos to think for themselves is an uphill struggle at the best of times, because they’re all brought up to NOT think and do as they’re told.
IMO, one solution would be to set up some alternative organised religion that would appeal to a credulous, uneducated public. A sort of half-way house to intellectual freedom. As I said above, I think Calvinism performed that function in Europe, back when Europe looked like the Philippines.
Marius,
I cant keep myself busy with history. If I cant adapt to today’s demands then I will visit a psychologist or even a psychiatrist.
I like to re-invent myself almost daily.
“The Catholic Church are the Filipino’s masters…”.
I not only think that the CC can be seen as master but also the PH culture (‘conformity’ et al).
It seems to me that its very difficult in PH to be and to think differently.
Peer pressure and group pressure (incl members of the direct an extended family) are also sufficating.
But what I find so funny is that with everyone is tying to keep everyone in line, the Philippines has a dysfunctional society (a term used by Benign0. Which I agree wih).
@Mr. Robert,
“The bible nor religion(s) do not offer me a choice.”
I don’t think you’re being true with yourself! The Bible speaks of the Good and Bad and You…You have your Free Will! (Is there anything that you’ve read somehow in the bible that’s preventing you with your choice? Or is it just finding something to blame!)
It’s quite contradictory, as you have said, ‘well, lets see about that’.
“…I have to make that choice myself. I am the one who is responsible for the decisions I make. Not you, not a church, not a bible. Only I am responsible !!!!”
“I will make that decision on my own. I dont need a bible to tell me how I must run and live my own life.”
You deny the bible as a source of knowledge and guidance but I read somewhere that you’re a firm believer of Abraham Harold Maslow (probably of militant atheist Clinton Richard Dawkins too!) and actually advocating his theory!
(So it’s not true that you’re entirely free! Nor you rely just on your own!)
The Bible (for the spiritual world), to put it simply, is about order and guidance or even about laws and systems if you may.
And so like every State have their Constitution (for the secular world), it’s there to instill order and harmony and to promote agreement and to prevent chaos!
I am sure no country in the world, including The Kingdom of the Netherlands, will ever survive without anything something like it!
Copernicus,
Maslow is indeed one of my favorites; Dawkins, however, I never read anything he wrote.
Laws are there – I guess – for ‘law and order’ and to prevent/avoid anarchy/chaos. Hence, the term ‘law-abiding citizen(s)’.
But you know, most of us (yes me too) sometimes break a law (speeding for instance).
A government should facilitate (in its law making) all members of the population. So even when you personally are against abortion (just used as an example) but when there is a demand for abortion within that same population then the government should and must facilitate that group as well. So with those 2 groups there is NO agreement. Its called diversity and people look different at issues/topics. If I am against abortion, that other person – who is pro-abortion – doesnt offend me, and doesnt insult me.
What I was and am trying to say is that a bible (a religion) doesnt allow one to move freely without getting ‘punished’ (ending up in hell).
If a person wants an abortion (okay by law) then that is a voluntary free choice.
If a person wants to have a same-sex marriage (okay by law) then that is a voluntary free choice.
Need I to continue?
So, personally, I find a bible (religion) sufficating as starting point. There is no flexibility and there is no change. While laws (incl the constitution) will be changed when needed.
MASLOW? R U KIDDING? The heirarchy of needs is psych 101 , you can get deeper than that cant you?
Who,
I am looking forward hearing your version of psych 2.0: Filipino style.
@Mr. Haighton,
“What I was and am trying to say is that a bible (a religion) doesnt allow one to move freely without getting ‘punished’ (ending up in hell).”
Mr. Haighton, in The Netherlands, if the Dutch people violate a law that control certain actions, can they move freely without getting punished? Are we not getting what we deserve in failure and in success?! (“Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.”)
Here in The Philippines right now if you violate “Duterte’s Law” you end up lying in the streets! (Allegedly, that is, if you’re someone that’s the “nanlalaban” kind.)
Laws (Biblical/State Laws) are just measures of control (to create balance) and when implemented by the state and/or by organized religion, in whichever way, is something potentially good and something potentially evil.
Ok Mr. Haighton, I do get what you mean!
You want freedom…you want change…and you want flexibility…you do not want to be controlled…and you don’t want something that suffocates.
So in other words you’re dismissing the bible because in your view it’s something static and dead end. You want something dynamic that will adapt to the changing times! You want to be part of, say, the “Zeitgeist”! A Free Thinker, perhaps, like Marquis de Sade?!
(I know you do not buy the rather difference in dynamics in The Book but technically it’s not correct to say “There is no flexibility and there is no change.” For one there’s change in administration, first it’s Moses (OT) then it’s JC (NT). But I will not go further…)
It’s not so bad if you think of it that way…but try not to be vigorously engaging to those not in line with yours because you welcome diversity! (Some other foreign scumbags are not so welcoming!)
I think it’s ok if it’s just you and a few others (as individuals or group) to maintain balance. But just try to imagine if all people in the world will embrace the same world-view as yours, especially those at the so-called “top of the chain”! (Again, some are just plain omniscient scumbags!)
Quo Vadis?! There’s the potential danger of good intentions and bad results/ disastrous outcome! When the “fulcrum” that’s holding the “Balance of Power” fails, the “Balance of Terror” reigns! History tells us of social movements and social experiments that took place in the world and we know where it lead to!
Coprnicus,
There are two things I want to lay onb the table, Sir Copernicus.
“Laws (Biblical/State Laws) are just measures of control (to create balance) and when implemented by the state and/or by organized religion, in whichever way, is something potentially good and something potentially evil.”
Maybe in your country, laws and the constitution never changes but in my country they do.
Secondly, you can better address your entire thesis to the author of this article (Why I think the Catholic church in the Philippines is doing more harm than good).
PROVE IT !
I believe religion is necessary as an alternative ready recourse for those who do not comprehend why injustice and inequality exist. Also religion gives meaning to one’s existence.
To believe that life has no meaning at all but just random chance and evolution in this universe would be the best recipe for chaos and disorder in any given society.
It is the abuse of power of religious leaders over their adherents that should be exposed and given the appropriate punishment such as censure. And if religious leaders violate the laws, there should not be any concession given to them.
When religious leaders criticize political leaders,they should also be open to criticisms, of opening to debate their concept of absolute eternal truths because in the first place, there is no such thing as eternal absolute truths more so if it conflicts with other religious beliefs which profess their own idea of absolute eternal truths.
Just because a person doesn’t have religion doesn’t mean he thinks that life has no meaning.
People who are well educated in the theory of evolution would never say we are just a random chance of nature. On the contrary, our evolutionary process centers around small increment of changes. Nature molded us into beings that are able to survive in our current environment. As nature changes, so do we… in small increments. When you actually understand the process, you will realize it’s far from chaotic. Evolution is a precise and orderly process.
@Red In any normal curve of a given population, there are the intelligent/thinking or reasonable people like you at the the other end of the Gaussian Curve. However, the tragedy is the great majority are more persuaded or cultured to believe in a religion taught to them in their formative years.
If the majority of humanity are like you or educated like you, then no need to debate on evolution or the need of any religion.
What if it’s both? Random and orderly.
No learning in absolutely controlled systems, while random systems self-destruct. Combine both you get equilibrium.
“Religion is the “Opium” of the people” …statement from Communist Russia’s Vladimir Lenin.
If religion helps you…then be a member of any religion.
The trouble here is: religion is being used by evil people/clergy to advance their political agendas.
The Aquino Cojuangco political axis use the Roman Catholic Church , to advance their political agendas.
The late Cory Aquino used the Priests and Nuns, and the late Cardinal Sin to defeat her political enemies, and gain political power.
The Iglesia Ni Kristo is wiser…it became rich, by supporting politicians in election.
The Radical Islamic Al Queda and ISIS, use religion to invade countries; do terrorism; enslave women, who are not members of their religion; commit murders and killings on “infidels”…
What some priests and bishops of the Roman Catholic Church are doing now in our country, is almost the same as Al Queda and ISIS is doing to the Islamic religion.
They are in politics, not preaching the revelations, from their Gods, to their believers !
It is conflict and warfare; instead of love and peace !
Cardinal Sin – that’s guy’s name makes me laugh every time I hear it. And what a vile piece of work he was. Nominative determinism, anyone?
YES, that guys name says it all.
i think the spaniards introduce the christian church and not the roman catholic church. it was grab by the roman catholism just like what constantinople did grabbing the followers of christianity. one of these two is paganism which could be clearly seen using the chalice, the sun, the christmas tree, etc. those are pagan symbols.
I don’t think so. Spain and Portugal in the 16th century were very, very Catholic. Their modus operandi for conquest was to threaten to kill everyone who didn’t convert to Christianity, suggesting strongly that their religion wasn’t Christianity.
Remember, the Spanish Inquisition was in full swing when the Spaniards first started checking out the Philippines with a view to invasion. The Catholic Church there was at the height of its powers and as demonic as it was ever likely to get.
Catholicism was conceived as a repressive tool for controlling the masses, and historically it has been stunningly successful in achieving that.
About the only country on the planet that’s been successful with Catholicism is Poland, but that’s because (in my opinion) they moved it closer to actual Christianity.
It was the Filipinos who changed Catholicism into its present disgusting form. They took their traditional beliefs in witchcraft, demons, and suchlike, and simply merged them with the foreign religion.
So what’s the alternative? Islam?
Ah, Filipinos. The only choice is between this bad thing and this other bad thing, right? Where would you be if you ever learned to set your sights just a little higher than the gutter?
Black and white dichotomies are the only thing your kind understands huh?
@hahacienda. John Lennon said it best in his song, “Imagine” before he was shot dead by a fanatical Roman Catholic in New York City in December 1980..
The alternative is first to believe that there is no such thing as eternal absolute truth which every religion would like its adherents to believe.
Obviously your rhetorical question, “Islam ? ” is out of line.
Why do you think the Catholic Church is doing more harm than good? Because it is doing more harm than good and has been for a long time, in particular the birth control problem.
Even Digong has expressed his opinion in the past, but why can nothing be done about it?
Can no one take on the Church? Tax it for God’s sake!
CB,
“Can no one take on the church? Tax it for God’s sake!”
And then what?
Will it change anything? No, it won’t.
You will get court case over court case and in the end the church (CBCP) will win.
How’s the investigation into the local branch of ubiquitous child abuse going? Has it scratched the surface?
I’m not sure how many decades behind this country is in terms of transparency, but if you’ve paid attention to what’s come to light in the developed world in recent years, Filipinos should be watching their priests, celebrities and other powerful figures very carefully.
Expose it sooner rather than later and you’ll save a lot of suffering.
I do believe in God but I don’t believe in religion, and that’s what President Duterte said on his TV interview last June.
So what’s that means?
It means that religion is not perfect in spite that you could say that God really created & control it. And who’s His followers on His religion? What else but us, humans but unfortunately we can’t blame Him and we could only blame His religion that He’d created or established it.
X,
If we are to submit ourselves to critical thinking, the term “religion” simply means “one’s relationship with the Lord”!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion
And by that, we can accept that “religion”, which emanates from God, differentiates itself from the so-called “organized religion”, which emanates from man.
This brings us to question…
Is it really logical to declare “I do believe in God but I don’t believe in religion…”?!
Is this usual declaration just a common fallacy? A common mistaken impression! Even by a President?!
Why selectively “only blame His religion” if you’re saying “God really created & control”…inspite of it (“His religion”) being “not perfect”?
So what does it mean (“I do believe in God but I don’t believe in religion…”)?
Does it mean because “that’s what President Duterte said on his TV interview last June.”?
I hope you wouldn’t mind and agree, I just think the statement needs refinement!
Dear Thaddeus,
If I have a problem with a company or an institution, I will try and solve it. How?
I will write them (okay a bit old-school), give them a call or send them an e-mail. Explaining what my beef is and asking them to respond.
If that may not help (enough) then I will try to get as many supporters (who really feel the same way I do and thus experiencing the same) and march to and protest in front of their HQ (head quarters). Maybe to draw more attention to the cause, I will alert local (but preferably national (TV, radio and newspapers) media to make more waves.
Together with all the above, I will also write a letter or email to the national consumer watch dog and state my grievances.
Writing a piece of text on a blogger site will not make my ‘voice’ be heard where it should be.
As last resort, you can go out on strike. But that is more in the case of employer-employee problems.
So, if you want to change things, you really have to go deeper and come into action.
(All the above applies to how we do things in my country).
The Catholic Church had been the primary reason for the lack of family planning/ birth control. There are millions of unwanted, hungry/ sick kids because of this, as well as from lack of personal responsibility. A lack of options for women is among the greatest reasons for poverty there.
As far as people teaching their kids responsibility; well, based on the culture there is slim chance of that.
The Roman Catholic Christian religion is not the only Christian religion nor the only religion in the world. it is the errors, mistake, illogic thinking, and the idea of any religion claiming to have absolute eternal truth that must be demolish with reason for this world to have lasting peace and order.
The great problem is this country the politicians use of religion by most politicians to get and keep the political power they crave. The religion is not limited only to Roman Catholic. We have Islam, Iglesia ni Kristo, born again Christianity, etc. etc. Who does not know of a once spoiled brat convicted son of a powerful political clan in the North who became a preacher after serving his sentence at the NBP (at the least he was not a druglord at the NBP)and was voted to office as congressman primarily because of his born again Christian supporters.
Only the naive would not know that most politicians in this country are like that.
the catholic church
curse the holy spirit = excommunicated
rape a child = reassigned to another parish
enough said
Like everything else Filipino’s touch, get involved with…they fuck it up and twist it into a scam to benefit those at the top.
The mid-level Pastors and the local church people do plenty of good things for their parish. The locals would not go there if they did not.
I know this, I have been there and seen it, sure some bad apples exist too.
The glass is half full.
However, I think we should put more effort into filling the glass…
Watch this video on why Pres. Duterte hates Catholic Church: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs4l-AoZZtY
Watch and find out why Pope Benedict resigned. (Unedited version was BANNED in Youtube.
https://youtu.be/ztisTKy2KTE
Dark secrets of the Catholic Church; Ex nun Confesses
https://youtu.be/5WkKmU_W8NU
A Nun’s Story: From Convent Bondage (Sexual Desire, Dating Priests, Rituals, No Bible) to Jesus
https://youtu.be/Ph8tpLveaE4
The Real History of the evil Roman Catholic Church
https://youtu.be/LClaSilFlA8
Roman Catholicism has so much to answer for, especially in countries where it has a hold over people. It is a wicked system, teaching error and perverted things. How I feel for the Filipino people.
Evangelical faith and Orthodox Christian spirituality should be the essential elements of Filipino Christianity. Not that crooked ROMAN Catholicism.
So:
-Abandon Rome and embrace Antioch (Acts 11:26).
-Stop using the Roman Catholic rosary. Use the Orthodox prayer rope for private devotion.
-Saints are role models for all Christians and must not be “venerated” (in fact, worshiped) in novenas/devotions.
-No more Roman Catholic Marian devotions but saying the first part of Hail Mary (Ave Maria) is allowed in ordinary prayers.
-No more Roman images but Orthodox iconography is allowed.
-Most of all, read the Holy Bible regularly. (St. Jerome said that “ignorance of the Scriptures means ignorance of Jesus Christ.)