We all want change and change has to start from within one’s self and from the basic unit of society.
My parents  made me feel, that I can be somebody great without compromising discipline during the stage where practical reasoning is best developed. So remarkable are the developmental years of a child at the ages 2-8 that the said age range is used to measure the rate of development of young children through GMDS 2-8 or Griffiths Mental Development Scales 2 to 8 years old.
Our society needs to make the most of those years to mold an empowered Filipino out of our children, this way more Filipinos of the now and the next generation will know how to employ critical thinking and demand what is due of them without any need for arrogance.
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Our Philippines deserves only the BEST leaders and excellent citizens!
A question just nags at me though, since a lot just doesn’t add up to my aforementioned proposal.
How can a society churn out excellent citizens if many of our parents are abroad as OFWs? Â If parents have no time to care for their children due to work or a large family? Worse, if society is plagued with delusions :
source: http://ofwempowerment.com/2008/08/
He also said many Filipino women would make “good wives†for foreigners in countries that have low population growth.“ (source: NAGA CITY, DECEMBER 31, 2012 , INQUIRER )
That last line made me visceral thus I need to get a practical answer from those proclaiming moral ascendancy as to how they can address the fact that there is a high rate of abandoned, sold, neglected, prostituted and abused children and the high statistics for suicide in women imprisoned in a loveless marriage.
Is there a high or even a remarkable number of outreach graduates from the many sectarian schools that abound?
How many sectarian institutions offer support to the abused women and children? To products of broken homes?
Do we really want a Philippines where mothers and fathers leave their families as OFWs? Is the Bishop even aware how many families get broken because of this needed Exodus?
How many OFWs go home as a frozen corpse or imprisoned in a foreign prison and raped? How many OFWs shiver during the winter at embassies and consulates because they had to escape an abusive employer or the police?
I need to get their advise based on critical thinking, Â as to how would such incidents as the ones I personally know about, can be addressed.
If an educated and wedded mother found it in her to abandon her newborn, how far worse could the similar situation be for the unwed and the raped? How many more news of abandoned babies, dumped fetuses, street urchin strewn areas and bloating orphanages are we going to dodge? (from “Unwanted” from Chapter 2 of my book “The Dove Files“)
“Baby M is a six-month old child abuse victim. He was battered by his paternal grandparents. His father is in jail. The maternal grandparents dont want to have anything to do with their family.  His mother and siblings have no support system to speak of. They are wholly dependent on the Social Services Division of PGH. But their problem is when Baby M is discharged from the hospital. The kids have no place to stay while their mother works. This baby is a fighter. We admitted him at the Post-Anesthesia CAre unit intubated – he needed mechanical ventilatory assistance (respirator) to breathe. But after a few hours his frail body urged itself to fight and live. (from “A cartoon for a childhood lost”  from Chapter 2 of my book “The Dove Files“)
How many more? I don’t want to read the classic, “it’s the cross they have to bear”. As far I know, my Lord Jesus Christ did that for us and died on the cross for us, and I dare not insult that ultimate manifestation of God’s love with any person’s sacrifices. “…Our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment” (Isaiah 64:6), right?
If one is really so morally upright, how can they turn a blind eye to the facts, and discount the protection that laws can provide?
I do hope the morally ascended are not taking God’s name in vain and are using Holy words to propagate a culture of impunity and apathy.
Having a religion isn’t the same as having faith and being spiritual. Faith is not a religion but a lifestyle. One can go to church or a mosque but leaves, as one came. Nothing was uplifted, nothing was learned, worse nothing understood.
It is clearly seen in how a self proclaimed “believer” condescend and persecute. There is hubris born out of pride, very off tangent to the teachings of Jesus, about humility, understanding, sympathy and unconditional love.
Will such inspire genuine change?
There is no religious, political or economic solution to a spiritual problem.
Mike is the author of “Minsan may Isang Puta”, an allegory which has been circulating since 2004 and with over 50,000 likes and shares in social media alone. It won a film grant in 2010 to be included in the multi-narrative Indie film “Ganap na Babae” (International title: Garden of Eve). The teaser, reviews and commentaries are here. The movie was honored as Cinemalaya 2010’s opening film and has won international and local recognition.
The royalties from the initial 150 copies of Mike’s first sole-authored book, The Dove Files, went to a Project Malasakit scholar who graduated Cum Laude in April 2013, the rest was also paid forward to baby Mark who underwent a liver transplant in March 2013.
Part of the royalties of the “Minsan may Isang Puta” book at Barnes and Noble Online goes to support the education of a young Yolanda survivor taking up B.S. Accounting at U.P. Tacloban.
–
Our Bishop from Daet does not know , what he is talking about. The OFW situation in our country is a tragedy. We are looked down as slave servants. Our brains needed for the country’s development are drained.
What you believe is your business. Religion is just a part of faith. The trouble is when we misuse religion : to control people, to use it in politics, to scam people, etc…
Hey Mike, have you seen my earlier article on Bishop Garcera’s statements? My article tackled his statement about poverty. You tackled his statements about making more OFWS and sending off women to other countries to stop becoming Filipinas nicely. To me, it’s like selling our people.
People who do not think that OFWism is a problem should start doing so.
This is one of the cases where things that SHOULD be seen as a problem are not being seen as such by some parties who have erroneous beliefs.
@ChinoF,
I dont know much about the “history” of OFW. You seem to talk quite negative about OFW. Like a world famous ducth soccer player once said: “every negative thing, has its positive thing & and every positive thing, has its negative thing”.
Like I mentioned above, I dont know that much about OFW but I do see the negative and positive side about being an OFW. But where is the balance of both? Is there a balance in the negative and positive sides?
Negative:
A family gets disrupted, disjointed, being/getting used and abused, raped maybe. BTW: it seems that most OFWs are of the female persuasion. I wonder why?
Positive:
the money send back will probably be more than trying to get a job in the Philippines and staying there.
In the end, bottomline, its about giving (more) value to the one or to the other extreme.
Does it ever happen that a OFW makes plans to have her family back in the Philippines ask her to join her. We call that “family reunification”.
For me, the negative outweighs the positive. There are a lot of cases where husband or wives left behind philander, and sometimes the OFWs themselves philander. The children themselves turn into trashy miscreants because their parenting figures are absent, and the people left behind to take care of them are useless.
Just the pain of being separated from one’s family is bad enough. Shouldn’t the family members be together, like spouses staying together, or parents being with their children to teach them and discipline them like they should? Why separate family members across distances for such long period of time? Why should “family reunification” be a once-a-while event for many Filipinos?
Yes, it’s because they have to earn money. But then why can’t people have that much money through jobs HERE in this country? Why should it be elsewhere?
Why should OFWs be so many?
The social cost of OFWism is for me too high.
And I think, numerically, there are too many cases of dysfunction in OFW families to consider it negligible.
I once chatted with an OFW, residing in Malta and she seemed to be content. On the other hand, we always say here: “No one is forcing you to go overseas. You can say no.”
I am sure or at least hope that every starting OFW consider all the pros and cons of going overseas and then make a wise and smart decision. Or is itoften a spur of the moment decision based on money, earnings? In my case, I would even consider consulting all kinds of friends how they feel and think, doing all kind of research (online), going to various fora to meet existing OFWs who already work in the same country, I plan to go.
So in all that I gathered enough information to base my decision on.
For god’s sake every time we go on holiday/vacation we go through that same process of research, gathering information before booking any destination. And holidays are mostly only for 3 to 4 weeks. An OFW will stay away for more than 1 year.
How do people make decisions in your country anyway? By counting their blessings and thats it?
It’s hard to say no when the jobs that pay enough are not here.
In addition to this:
Employee: I’m not earning enough for my needs.
Employer: Then get out of the country!
@ChinoF
(the dutch version)
Employee: I’m not earning enough for my needs.
Employer: Then go back to school, get a higher degree so you will get a promotion. Then you will get a higher pay check. Or lower your cost of living.
The cost is definitely high and since the govt (present and past) need the income, noone studies the social cost, but clearly children ‘abandoned’ in their most critical formative years tend to have difficulty studying, forming healthy relationships in adulthood, become emotional and co-dependent, and can have anger management issues. All in all a rocky foundation for future life and the continuation of a vicious circle.
The need to go abroad is clear but there needs to be a cinscious effort and strategy to reduce this modern day slavery, and most people only hear the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the horror stories and degradation (mainly in the middle east) because the ofw’s are too ashamed or embarrassed to say what really goes on.
The treatment of ofw’s by the government indicates an uncaring and uncivilized attitude where life is cheap and problems ignored.
Binay likes to grab headlines but has done nothing of major significance re policy or planning
Yes, there is the other side, like poor skill levels in people, the lifestyle of some families being beyond their means so the breadwinner has to earn more, the disproportionate fact of much less breadwinners than dependents, irresponsibility of those being fed, etc.
But still, I think we have too many more OFWs than we should. The social cost remains too high.
While it is true that no one is forcing Filipino’s to go work abroad, BUT Realistically, wages in the Filippines are too low, the cost is way above the wages paid in the country to almost everyone.
It is ARROGANCE in a subliminal sense to suggest that ‘No one is holding a gun to a Filipino’s head to go work abroad’, it really is. Most people from a Western countries that comes to the Philippines will not stay to WORK, because of the RIDICULOUSLY low-wages paid to people. It is BEYOND SLAVERY, a gun to the right head(S) MIGHT improve the situation.
so MAYBE, the correct of summing up the situation is by saying: “The ECONOMIC situation in the Philippines FORCES, YES FORCES, those who want to live decently to work abroad.”. There, is that better?
@Joe,
“While it is true that no one is forcing Filipino’s to go work abroad, BUT…”
Are there no trade unions who will deal with employers for better circumstances also financially, raising wages, conditions, number of free days with pay, sick leave, maternity leave etc etc?????
I hope you wont say no bec then you are really living in the Middle Ages or was it Stone Ages.
The trade unions aren’t effective enough, I think. But it’s also because of the country’s flawed labor laws. For example, there has to be a six months probation before regularizing someone, unlike in other countries where one hired is already regular. Add to that business laws that drive up expenses for businesses here, which make them want to scrimp on salaries, and more, etc. So many things add up to make working in the Philippines more difficult than in many advanced countries.
ChinoF,
In the Netherlands we have one month probation time and mostly one or two months notice time. The lowest salary one may earn is the “minimum wage”, which is Euro 1469 gross (based on a 40 hrs week). Translated this is PHP 79233,45.
Euro 1 = PHP 53.9370
PHP 1 = Euro 0,0185
To add:
Employees are very well protected here by labor laws. Its not that easy for an employer to fire an employee. As employee you really have to horrendous things to get fired, for instance to steal from the employer, then you will be dismissed at once.
An employee has the legal rights of minimum of 22 days of paid leave (not including maternity leave). And sick leave is paid. But dont be sick too long and too often bec that can be a reason to lay you off.
Maternity leave is 16 weeks (minimum) starting from 6 weeks before giving birth.
Robert,
This time, I’ve to agree with you.
To which part of which statement?
I actually think I am in total disagreement with GRP here. As long as nobody is keeping a gun to one’s face, you still have a choice. You either stay in the Philippines or go work abroad. Nobody is forcing anybody. I see it as voluntarily decisions. And if only 10% work as OFW, the other 90% are probably okay with their lives in the Philippines. Its a huge monirity, but still a minority. And if those OFW do not do any research befor ethey go, then why should I pity them for being used or abused or even raped (although I am of course against rape). I cant change the rapist but the OFW could have stayed in the Philippines. Or she can find another employer who doesnt rape and doesnt use and abuse. Or even decide to go back.
The problem is, there is a greater risk of starving and having a poorer and health-riskier life by staying and earning less. It is a risk best avoided.
MR. Haighton, Have you seen the crowds of people at the Western embassies in Manila, trying to get out of the Philippines? The desperation on their faces is a stark reality of the ‘outright oppressive’ wages paid in the country. IF you are a Westerner, would you stay in the country and work for $2-$5/day? SERIOUSLY, would you work hard every day to be paid $5/day? I DOUBT IT. To make matters worse, owing to the dreadful wages in the country t leads to terrible exploitation of the OFW abroad as the employers can get away with treating the OFW anyway the want, knowing they would rather be dead, in a lot of cases, than go back to their homeland. MAYBE, if the shoe was on the other foot you would not speak as you do?
You say it is ‘voluntary’,BUT the reality is it is about as voluntary as picking who your parents are.
@Joe,
as long as there is a choice then it is voluntarily. Period! When there is NO choice, then it is dictatorship.
If I am gay (homosexual) in a country where it is not allowed to be one (unwritten or written law) then I either accept it or go to a country where I can live in freedom. BUT if I have no means to migrate then all I can do is sit out the storm with all consequences.
I can blame my parents that I was born but that wont solve a thing living in a country where it is not accepted to be gay. So I have to deal with it myself: accept it, change the
system or do anything possible to migrate.
But I have choices to choose from.
A choice to starve, or survive with a lot of dysfunction in the family.
You are applying western logic and situation – not applicable in philippines where the vast majority are not only simple in outlook, but conditioned by the church, and struggle to survive on a daily basis, hence the ofw phenomenon. It is not their preferred choice, but in many instances their only option.
How long have you spent in the philippines!
As far as abuse/rape is concerned i can only give estimates in the middle east where i spent 2 years, but it is more like 5-10 % of young housemaids ( many are pressured until they give in under fear of threats of being sent back to philippines, and some given money to keep quiet), with 25-30% ( of those under 30 who get a day off) acting as ‘sunday escorts’, or having 1-2 regular married ‘boyfriends’.
The middle east are now starting to get more housemaids from vietnam and less from philippines. The filipina housemaids are more aware and wary of going there especially if young. My advice. The govt should blacklist these countries.
I knew one ofw who was raped regularly by the husband in the house, and then by the 2 sons. The husband was the chief of police! Barbarians.
Abortions are pretty commonplace but expensive and risky, if the ‘boyfriend’ will pay and has not disappeared.
@Libertas,
“How long have you spent in the Philippines!”
Presumably according to you, not long enough.
We can only attack/solve one problem at the time. But those Philippine girls and women who register themselves on “dating websites” is just another form of slavery as well. But then a luxurious form of slavery without being used, abused and raped. But they all do it to send money back home to their families. There is no real differences with OFW who have the same “ideology” (sending money back to their families).
In the case of the luxurious slavery one can genuinely ask: Is there any real love or just simple greed. The end justifies the means.
And sending money back is not THE solution to solve a widespread problem. At best it is a form of symptom control but not solving a real problem.
You have a headache and you will take a pain killer but it is not the solution why the head ache is there.
To solve this epidemic problem you have to start at and with the roots.
What are the roots:
Government + Religion + low wages + culture + big families = poverty
Which one of these can we handle, control, tackle and solve? I can see only one. Then start there. All the other ones are external factors we have little power over. Only one we can influence by the individual him/herself. Start there and after that one, try to tackle the next.
I just thought about this.
A Catholic Church-sponsored ad once ran, “The family that prays together stays together.” You can surmise that the church wants families to stay together.
Eh, bakit mo pinaghihiwalay through OFWism?
Some of the church people’s actions run contradictory to their church’s teachings.
There are numerous studies and articles on the social cost of OFWism.
A GMA article on the social costs
One by the Atikha foundation
One by Jet Hernandez back on Antipinoy
NSCB article on the Pinoy Diaspora
There’s more, just look around.
From the GMA link, to paraphrase (read: to nitpick):
“Leaving OFW children behind: Economic benefits vs social costs
Economic Benefits – With remittances last year totaling to $14.45 billion or more than P722 billion, the government predicts that the 2008 remittances will hit $15.7 billion or almost P800 billion.
Social Cost – …although remittances give way to a better standard of living for migrant families and good education opportunities for the children, the unfortunate impact of migration to families left behind is immeasurable.”
So how much is the social cost?
He he he, IMMEASURABLE.
I can also make a claim on how much is the social cost if these OFWs are here in our country JOBLESS. How many families are ruined because the supposed to be bread winner is jobless?
Of course, IMMEASURABLE!
As for the Atikha link, they’re at least honest in their assessment of the social cost of OFW.
“Atikha is faced with a number of challenges. It seeks to face them squarely in its pursuit of making a dent in the lives of migrant families. Among others, the following are the most important challenges:
1. Quantifying the social cost of migration
Oftentimes, our assertion of the social cost of migration is challenged by some “experts”. They contend that our assertion is simply based on ANECDOTES (caps are mine), and, thus, could not possibly be representative of the situation of the majority of overseas Filipino children and families. We see the need to quantify the social cost of migration for OFWs and their families. We need to convince more people including policy makers and academicians that the social cost of migration is real. …”
The same is also true to the very long article on Antipinoy link. No numbers for the social cost.
As if these advocates are telling the OFW to sacrifice their high paying overseas jobs, return to the Philippines for a lower paying job. FOR THE GREATER GOOD.
How can one argue with somebody who is all rhetoric?
Do the “social cost” only refer to those who stay behind? What about the social “psychological” cost of an OFW that is used, abused and raped all the time? What about the “cost” of a mother (the OFW) who hardly can see her kids and husband? (maybe only through Skype once a week).
“Social cost” are not measurable but they are visible if those kids will behave different later in life compared to kids from an intact family.
My suggestion would be: if kids didnt/dont reach a certain age yet that no woman is allowed to work abroad. That age will probably be the age of maturity.
I also wonder if it is not possible to transfer the kids and husband to the country the OFW works in. That seems to be a win-win-situation for all.
Robert,
IMO, you’re correct in your premise –
“Do the “social cost†only refer to those who stay behind? What about the social “psychological†cost of an OFW that is used, abused and raped all the time? What about the “cost†of a mother (the OFW) who hardly can see her kids and husband? (maybe only through Skype once a week).
“Social cost†are not measurable but they are visible if those kids will behave different later in life compared to kids from an intact family.”
There are at least 2.2 million OFWs based on the NSO’s 2011 Survey on Overseas Filipinos.
How many OFWs are raped and abused?
Can we say about 1% of the 2.2 million?
This rape and abuse thing is being highlighted by advocates so it must be rampant. Something like a rule rather than exception.
1% of 2.2 million is 22,000.
I’m just making a guesstimate (interpolation?) in using 1% as my number. I would say it is a valid guesstimate if we based it on “exception rather than the rule” principle.
And if you don’t agree with my 1%, can you give me your guesstimate?
@Trosp,
“And if you don’t agree with my 1%, can you give me your guesstimate?”
Are you asking me to give an educated guess? I simply cant.
I need statistics (pie charts) at least. I love pie charts. How many girls/women are raped annually in the Philippines? I think India is worse.
OMG, your suggestion is ludicrous.’Fascism’ comes to mind if you said it in the context of ‘being for the benefit of the homeland/people.’.
A real win-win for all would be to pay people inside the country a REAL livable wage so they do not have to basically destroy their family by working abroad. Exportation of labor as a national industry is disgraceful, the familial problems are but one problem it creates.
I really do wonder if the situation was yours to be in, that of OFW/OFW family member, you would think as you do.
Goddamit Joe, those families had a choice from the beginning. You are talking about the result (when its already too late). Lets start at the beginning. They fucked in the name of god first. That was the start of all poverty. Should I pity 2 parents having 5 kids while they never could afford such a big family. Fuck with your brains, not with your religion!!! Period. Come back to me when you have solved the fucking in your country. Dont talk to me after the fucking, talk before!!!!
Since i never mentioned dating sites!, then it sounds as though that is your experience, you met someone online, have visited a couple of times and haven’t gone native, so struggle to understand the complexities and illogicalities of a feudal system masquerading as a democracy and still in the iron grip of the church, not to mention the chinese mafia/triads, the control by, and envy of the US, etc.
The onion has many layers. It takes time to peel.
Not known as ‘the basket-case of asia’ for nothing.
Good luck unravelling it
“The onion has many layers. It takes time to peel.”
I hope they started peeling already. The longer they wait, the longer it will take to get to the core (roots). I think most people are afraid to start peeling, not knoing what is underneath the next layer. They probably cant handle any next layer. So my forecast and prediction is that it will take many centuries (literally) to get where we are now.
I dont want the Philippines to stay in the lowest regions of global societies. But I can change not much. I try to make my partner aware that there are more roads leading to Rome (that is a general expression we use) for showing that there is not only 1 road that leads to success or any other destination. It also shows there are more ways to think about one topic/subject. Or in harsh terms: open your eyes and wake up!!!!! Stop following blindly as if you dont have a mind of your own. Stop being a robot. But so far I have failed miserably in opening her eyes. That is the result of 36 years of indoctrination, 36 years of being raised in only one way, 36 years of poor, lousy education.
Robert
“Goddamit Joe, those families had a choice from the beginning. You are talking about the result (when its already too late). Lets start at the beginning. They fucked in the name of god first. That was the start of all poverty. Should I pity 2 parents having 5 kids while they never could afford such a big family. Fuck with your brains, not with your religion!!! Period. Come back to me when you have solved the fucking in your country. Dont talk to me after the fucking, talk before!!!!”
What the heck is happening with you?
Can’t you comment without blaming our religion?
Pathetic…
“Lets start at the beginning. THEY FUCKED IN THE NAME OF GOD FIRST. THAT WAS THE START OF ALL POVERTY.”
Let’s assume that for once, you use your brain instead of your clueless emotion, can you further elaborate that comment?
“THEY FUCKED IN THE NAME OF GOD FIRST. THAT WAS THE START OF ALL POVERTY.”
In my circle of friends, we call your comment an idiotic outburst.
Period!
Trosp,
“Can’t you comment without blaming our religion?”
I dont blame any religion. I only blame those people who follow their religion blindly.
For me a religion is nothing else than a book (bible), a statement of how a person CAN live. I am not a book critic but I am able to read between the lines and form my own opinion, my own mind if I like that book or not. If you (as one of my best friends) will share with me how to do things differently than I always consider your opinion. But bottomline, if your opinion wont work for me I will tell you that. If your opinion will work for me then I will do that. But I will not do what you say blindly as if your opinion, your way is the only (right) way.
I dont like people who act/behave blindly.
Robert
“I dont blame any religion. I only blame those people who follow their religion blindly.”
As far as my Catholic religion is concerned, they’re are many members who are Catholics in name only. I won’t dispute it.
On the other hand, reading from your comment, these are the people whom you see as the Catholics. You can’t dispute me on that.
It’s the common MO of those who are mischaracterizing our religion to look for the weakest link.
And according to you –
“I dont blame any religion. I only blame those people who follow their religion blindly.”
I will tell you, those who are following blindly means they do not know what they’re following.
How about those who are not following our religion blindly?
Ah, for others, they ridicule the faithful Catholics for their belief in moral absolutism which is according to them an antiquated dogma. They label them as blind followers, heh.
Instead, they extoll those Catholics who adhere to moral relativism (cost-benefit morality) as the modern Catholics. Those who can keep up with the times.
They can always quantify the expected tangible benefits against the
metaphysical costs.
Jeez…
Basically I dont care what/which people follow what religion to what extend. As long as they dont come crying to me about their circumstances and begging me for food and/or money.
And as long as they dont “blame” me that I live in all comfort and all luxury. I worked damned hard and efficient to get where I am. And only the reward system makes it that I dont need to worry about money.
Thanks to the uprise that started in the 1960s we are now, where we are. And maybe I should also credit the people who rebuilt the Netherlands after WW2 (also thanks to the marshall plan).
We want to move forward all the time. And in my humble opinion thats only possible without the influence of any religion.
Poeple who want to stay behind, want to remain backwards: fine, they will become or already are the losers of society.
Robert
And the wy your mind works –
““THEY FUCKED IN THE NAME OF GOD FIRST. THAT WAS THE START OF ALL POVERTY.â€
And the way your mind works –
““THEY FUCKED IN THE NAME OF GOD FIRST. THAT WAS THE START OF ALL POVERTY.â€
I believe you can better ask them. We MAKE LOVE first and maybe later we will consider to make love with the purpose of having a baby. But Atheists will not be dictated when, how and why we shall procreate. That is OUR decision. In the early days, a church worker would visit you if you didnt yet started to procreate. Pls mind your own business (I would tell that church worker).
By the way: how do you say it in your language? In English we say “make love”, “have sex”, “fuck”. The funny thing is I dont see the word “baby” or “procreate”.
Oh darling, lets procreate tonight…. That sounds really romantic, dont you think so?
Robert
I’m not interested in your fuck thing.
How about the “THAT WAS THE START OF ALL POVERTY.”
Give me a statistic with figures of total population, number of households and the number of persons in each household. Add to that a statistic of income per household.
Ah never mind, I am not interested in your fucking poverty and fucking OFWs.
Robert
This is your spin –
“THEY FUCKED IN THE NAME OF GOD FIRST. THAT WAS THE START OF ALL POVERTY.â€
And now you’re telling me –
“Give me a statistic with figures of total population, number of households and the number of persons in each household. Add to that a statistic of income per household.
Ah never mind, I am not interested in your fucking poverty and fucking OFWs.”
Have you forgotten old man, I was quoting you. It’s your comment. Now you want to look as if it has come from me, heh. I just can’t say grow old man.
Previously, I’ve asked you this –
“And if you don’t agree with my 1%, can you give me your guesstimate?”
Your retort –
“Are you asking me to give an educated guess? I simply cant.
I need statistics (pie charts) at least. I love pie charts.”
I wonder if I give you numbers with more than one digit. Can you manage it?
Come on, Trosp
I cant single handedly solve all the Phili problems on my own. I can only draw some conclusions absed on true and factual statistics. For the rest I can give you my guess, my estimations, my thoughts and my ideas.
I am not a native pinoy, I only observed and observe when ever I am in Cebu. I read some online Phili newspapers and am a regular visitor of GRP. In all my statements I can be wrong. So be it.
My partner hardly explains anything about her country and what her religion means to her. Probably its very difficult to share what a religion does and mean to her??!! So not much to go on from her.
BTW Robert, since you’re a queer (gay, same-sex) advocate, I’m very sure you’ll like this one –
(Warning: The photos are very graphic and are extremely conservative-unfriendly.)
http://www.zombietime.com/folsom_sf_2007_part_1/index.php
Just to leave you something for you to contemplate before you go to bed.
Trosp,
The fact that I am an advocate of human rights, same sex relationships/marriage, sex before marriage, divorce, abortion and euthanasia does not mean that I am homosexual myself.
People should be able to follow their hearts/minds/intuition or whatever they follow and not do something against their will because some stupid book, culture, law tells them to do.
Robert,
“The fact that I am an advocate of human rights, same sex relationships/marriage, sex before marriage, divorce, abortion and euthanasia does not mean that I am homosexual myself.”
I didn’t make any innuendo that your a homosexual or gay. You’re an advocate of it.
Have I labeled you as that?
What I’m telling the comment readers is how your mind works with respect to your advocacy. Your personal value.
As I’ve commented before, this could be what is in your mind –
Catholic teachings are nuisance to one’s freedom to choose. Nuisance to individual’s right to seek life and happiness.
As you’ve commented –
“People should be able to follow their hearts/minds/intuition or whatever they follow and not do something against their will because some stupid book, culture, law tells them to do.”
So it’s alright to you if your wife(daughter) and son(yourself) has a consensual copulation?
One’s right for life and happiness. The progressives credo.
No holds barred.
“People should be able to follow their hearts/minds/intuition or WHATEVER they follow and not do something against their will because some STUPID book, culture, law tells them to do.”
Some stupid books, culture, laws and you’re not stupid.
I could even grant that you’re the very man who is very ahead of the time.
Good luck to you!
Trosp,
“So it’s alright to you if your wife(daughter) and son(yourself) has a consensual copulation?”
I rather dont like it to happen bec then they might get a wrong impression about “making love” (having sex). Sex should never happen within one family, with family members. That is incest. And not even because its against the – Dutch – law but they may get confused when they will start real emotional, romantic relationships. Can I forbid it? I am certain of the fact that once things are forbidden thast kids will do it secretively (behind one’s back). Thats the nature of kids.
BUT what I actually meant was and is: if a woman/girl feels itself emotionally, romantically AND sexually attracted to a member of the same sex then nothing should hinder (not a religion, not a culture, not any written and unwritten laws/rules and regulations) her to explore that love.
“I could even grant that you’re the very man who is very ahead of the time.”
Thanks and thank you. BUT I just like it when people really love each other. To see 2 people really be in love is great, its fantastic. Thats why it always makes me happy to see 2 people showing PDA.
I am not ahead of my time. Love is great and love is beautiful regardless of heterosexual couples or same sex couples. LOVE = LOVE!!!!
Cringe inducing?
My apology to comment readers. I don’t have any way to tell Robert how I see it.
Trosp,
I invite you to continue our conversation by email, if you want. I am serious. I dont want to “rape” the space here and talking in circles, de-touring the original topic all the time.
Maybe that way we can have more appreciation for each other’s points of views. And we dont need to use this space here anymore.
Or we can do it on/by Facebook, Linked-In or whatever other stage you prefer. Its just an invitation, nothing more, nothing less.
Robert
Google this one –
“Consensual incest between adults is legal in the Netherlands”
Start with Wiki.
Even if that is true (and I dont doubt it is true) then it doesnt mean I have to abide that law myself. Some (written and unwritten) laws are plain stupid.
France & Belgium: Incest between consenting adults is not prohibited.
Why is it not forbidden?
a) there is a clear seperation between state and church in all those countries
b) we are talking about mature adults who mutually and consentually agree to the act.
My personal view on this is that in later life it may harm one or both by the time he/she wants to establish a romantic relationship outside the family. One must be very strong emotionally and psychologically to seperate the two “relationships”.
So personally I am against it. That only means that I will never engage in such acts myself. What others do, is up to them. If a future partner of mine would have been engaged in such acts, I will think twice to continue with her.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_regarding_incest
Europe
Most European countries have laws against incest between lineal ancestors/descendants, and between full siblings. However, in most countries these laws are no longer enforced if the incest takes place between consenting adults.[11]
Robert
No need. You don’t have any shame in all your claims in your comments against my belief and my value.
I won’t let it go without expounding what you’re spewing.
Trosp,
“No need. You don’t have any shame in all your claims in your comments against my belief and my value. I won’t let it go without expounding what you’re spewing.”
What should I be ahsamed of? To speak my mind freely? A mind that is NOT corrupted by a 3rd party ideology!!! A mind that is not corrupted, nor bribed by the dutch culture. I may live about 80-90 years and thats it for me. I have to find happiness inside myself, I have to love myself first before I can love somebody else; I have to make a living myself in those 80-90 years or will you take care of me? Will you take me in your household when I am deaf, blind and in a wheelchair? I dont think so (unless I was a catholic pinoy probably).
If there was a god, he had reasons enough to punish me for all I did (against the rules of the bible). And then he also has to punish my partner for all she did and still does. And she is a roman-catholic pinay. So where is the punishment? Will I end up in hell? Well that will be a party bec there I will meet all my friends again, then.
Robert
And you’re very happy with all of those of your comments.
He he he…
Good luck again.
Don’t be deceived by my FB page photo of mine. That was taken 5 years ago.
I’m a gray haired old man now.
“Happy” is a too big, too heavy word to use. I only speak my mind and try to explain why. Its very easy to say “I am against” or “I am pro”, whats more interesting and more important is to know the reason behind the why someone is pro or anti.
If you think, everytime I “bash” you that I do that with a smile on my face then you are wrong.
Again I am no expert of the Philippines but I didnt expect to land in, what we call, a culture-shock (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_shock).
But by now I get to terms with it. I still fail to see the beauty of all cultural things Filipino do but hey, thats okay with me. Give me an uninhibited island and I can live there for the rest of my life (preferably with my partner of course).
What is old? I am 49 years “young” with reddish/brown/gray straight hair.
I tried to find you on FB but “Trosp” didnt work for me. So you have to find me instead, if you already didnt.
Robert,
Don’t play dumb or you may get what you wish for.
How about just clicking my name, will that solve your problem?
Trosp, I am not playing dumb. I clicked your image and ended up with Gravatar. No clues there. I tried “Trosp” within FB but no results that lead to you.
You can check my FB: “Robert Haighton” or simply email me at haighton@xs4all.nl
Robert,
Click my name.
Ok finnally it worked. I only clicked your pic here but now clicked your name. See you later, Pen. Whats next? Skype?
@ Mike Portes
Throughout mankinds recorded history going back to the ancient times, man have travelled to unknown lands to improve themselves. As long as there are nations and people willing to do the dirty work, there will be countries that will open their doors. It is not a phenomenon.
The poor english speaking european pilgrims found a new home in the new world. Other europeans followed. Recorded history of the Philippines claim the Aetas as the earliest inhabitants. The Chinese came. The Muslims came. The Spaniards came and they all stayed. We know billionaires Henry Sy, Lucio Tan, The Zobels whose ancestors were poor people from their countries of origin.
In the 21st century, all the “surplus populations” and the “useless eaters” of poor third world countries are the new Hensy Sys, Lucio Tans and Ayala-Zobels of this generation.
That was during the age where there was little civilization in many parts of the world. Today, there’s so much development that many people can live with stability in the places they were born. There seems little to no reason for mass migrations for “improvement.” The context today doesn’t support it.
Also, I believe many cases of migration are due to escaping injustices or persecution in their lands. Think of the pilgrims on the Mayflower going to America, or Chinese coming here because they’re fleeing oppression in the mainland. “Improvement” was not their main reason for migrating (as if it ever was)… and migrating does not necessarily mean improvement. The correlation has yet to be proven.
ChinoF,
There is a lot of migration within my country. Why? Because after working 5 years the same job with the same employer, we need new challenges. So we will look for another job and that may lead us to move to another place in the country then where we are living now. After 5 yerars doing the same thing, day in day out, it becomes boring and dull. So time for a new challenge. Time for a new job.
When a dutch person is able to work abroad it means per se he has a very good job (in higher or top managemanet per se).
This is different from migration out from a country.
@ ChinoF
Human migration is a never ending cycle no matter when, who, what or where. Like animals as seasons change will travel distances where resources and good weather would provide comfort. It is not a phenomenon. It is basic instinct.
Nobody said the OFW program would be perfect. But no matter what the challenges are facing our “surplus population”, at the end of the day they can be proud to say that being an OFW have absolutely improved their lives. Their contributions to the country’s economy through their remittances pays the country’s loans to the IMF and the World Bank.
International artists Charice and Arnel Pineda are in every sense of the word OFW’s, but on the artistic level. Away from their families at least 11 months of the year young Charice and Arnel are model citizens.
OFWs are too lionized. It goes back to the question of Jet Hernanez: Bagong Bayani o Bagong Biktima? I go with the latter because the instances of dysfunctions are already too many to count and, in qualitative terms, have a severe impact on the country’s culture
“…and, in qualitative terms, have a severe impact on the country’s culture.”
Can you pls be more precise/elaborate what you mean by this? By using the word “severe” I guess you mean at least a negative impact. But what is the (negative) impact on the culture? Each OFW can share their (positive) experiences brought from the country she worked in. For instances, how things are done there re public transport, no bribes, better quality TV channels, better quality newspapers, maybe a more open culture etc etc. Like my partner experienced when she was in Singapore last August. She told me all her positive experiences from there. And maybe she can use those positive experiences now in the Philippines, to make a change (for the better)
@ ChinoF
OFWs are like the 400,000 men and women of the US armed forces fighting wars in the Middle East and other parts of the world. Lowly paid, separated from their families, fearful for their loved ones and their own survival but believing that the commitment that they have made was greater than their own safety.
^ That sounds like a good analogy.
YEAH, sure they are.
That depends on how much and by how much they want their lives to improve.
The poor ones have the advantage of beinght able to think that they have nothing to lose everything to gain.
I spent almost a decade sending money to my two adopted kids and when we could get away from work and spend time with our kids we would find our kids under the table during dinner time, with fear and bug bites all over their bodies while the rest of the family members who had no job, their kids were dressed very well and in good health, I have since retired and it’s a long road to making good with my kids but so far it’s working and the family, I couldn’t care less if they lived or died.
Another OFW sad story, daughter works abroad and sends home money to her mother so that she can take care of her 3 kids while working in Quatar, mother is 54 years old and has no job, hires a tom boy to take care of kids and household (a shack) and runs around like a teenager drinking every single night with the tom boy, she buy’s clothes, cigarettes for the tom boy who also gets trashed, the mother in question claimed that the tom boy was like a daughter to her only, but we found out later that wasn’t true, the mother also has a husband in Canada and his Philippine passport and Canadian visa has expired, so illegal now, I have since banned the mother and tom boy from ever stepping foot in my house hold, from my previous experience here with family I can safely say that this would be an almost normal day for just about any OFW.
mcalley
“I can safely say that this would be an almost normal day for just about any OFW.â€
Seriously?
@ Trosp, I am so serious, I am an expat and we adopted two kids in 1993 from my wife’s family and we took turns wasting our hard-earned dollars sending it here to the Philippines so they can take care of our kids but the family took turns using the money (we would change brothers or sisters) not for kids but themselves and their own kids, we even tried to hire maids to watch kids after years of putting up with the family only to get an even worse scenario, well I am finally retired and my son has a 3rd education, my daughter 6th grade, their both 19 years old, I’m picking up the pieces with my daughter only because my son was like the rest of the family stealing all our stuff to give it to his mama and papa he couldn’t change the sickness of being a liar, stealing, big shot, players and no morals, there’s going to be only a few OFW’s that send money home for a good cause and a great family but very few, I witness my neighbors and others in the village that waste OFW hard-earned money to drinking and running around like animals and of course acting like big shots a serious issue here also, such high pride individuals that in reality are nothing.
Ooops, my comment was misplaced. My apoology.
LA, Also my sentiment…
The problem is a local oligarchy and government that will not focus on local employment because more profits can be made through financial speculation. With that plus lack of government spending citizens have to fend for themselves, which includes seeking work abroad.