Look no further than the venerable Fidel Ramos — former Philippine president and Army general extraordinaire. Today, nobody seems to remember him as one of the key implementors of former Philippine President Ferdinand Marcos’s allegedly atrocious Martial Law regime. Why have people chosen to overlook Ramos’s past as a Martial Law chieftain? Simple. Because after the 1986 “revolution” he went on to become one of the Philippines’ better (if not the best of) presidents in the three decades that followed.
The best post-1986 Philippine president: Gen. Fidel Ramos was once a Martial Law chieftain.
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In that light, we can see the abject hollowness of the cornerstone argument applied by these “Never Again” bozos to the sorry excuse for “activism” they showcase to their cadre of lazy-brained sheep-like followers today. The object of their girly tantrums is centred around the the vice presidential candidacy of Senator Bongbong Marcos. According to those who chant the “Never Again” slogan ad infinitum, Senator Marcos has “no right” to be vice president of the Philippines — simply because “he is a Marcos”. And yet, these same activists call for an end to patronage and dynasty politics.
Holy inconsistency, Batman!
For these so-called “activists”, when it comes to “a Marcos”, blood is thicker than merit, apparently.
So much for the modern meritocracy Filipinos as a people aspire to be.
And that is where the moral ascendancy of these “Never Again” bozos comes apart. Their brand of activism is selective and, as such, medieval in nature. On one hand, they demonise certain candidates on the sole basis of their bloodlines but, on the other, decry the prevalence of dynastic power entrenched in Philippine society. Duh?!
Obsolete kiddie slogan: ‘Never again’ has become a quaint relic of a tired body of Yellow propaganda.
In their daft latching on to a flawed notion — that politicians are qualified or unqualified (or worse, forfeit their right) to run for public office on the basis of their bloodline — anti-Marcos “activists” have all but discredited their cause. Their argument against “a Marcos” crumbles thanks to this ill-conceived cornerstone in the conceptual framework of their “activism”.
Whether it is Martial Law or any other scandal (pork, sex, abject incompetence, whatever), ultimately it is the legal framework that qualifies a politician to run for office and it is the Filipino vote that determines who wins or loses.
It can’t be any simpler than that, really. Filipinos deserve a lot better than this sort of kiddie activism.
[Thumbnail photo courtesy Manila Bulletin.]
benign0 is the Webmaster of GetRealPhilippines.com.
Pilipinos have never known the two architect of Never Again Martial Law of the Economic hitmen of Marcos Destruction of the Philippines, a book of EHM, John Perkins revelation of the two traitor of Marcos, the smoking tobacco eddie and the Senatong tanda and his bribeb bacon barrel of justice crown of the hacienda luisita self interest yellow oligarchs deception.
Mga Bulag, Pipi at Bingi sa katotohanan ang karamihan sa mga Filipino.
Nabulag dahil sa pagkasilaw sa pera..
Napipi dahil sa puno ang bibig ng mga walang kwentang
bagay na pinapakain sa kanila ng mga Aquino at ng mga oligarkiya neto.
Nabingi dahil wala na silang ibang marinig kundi ang ingay ng kabobohan nila.
I said almost the exact words as a reply to an FB friend who was an anti-Marcos advocate. He did not bother to reply back.
Use this line of argument next time who get pestered by this advocates. They got nothing to rebut you with.
>> For these so-called “activists”, when it comes to “a Marcos”, blood is thicker than merit, apparently.
Quite right about not judging someone by their name. More than one country in Asia have been turned around by sons-of-dictators.
But what on earth does BongBong have to offer? I gave some examples of his complete lack of intelligence in the other thread. Do you really want another president with the mental age of a child?
On the contrary, in the midst of the ensuing chaos following the SAF44 massacre perpetrated by the terrorist Moro Islamic Liberation Front, it was only Senator Bongbong Marcos who maintained the presence of mind to map a way forward from that mess. He also set out to get busy going straight onto the ground himself to meet with as many stakeholders in PNoy’s Bangsamoro fantasy to get their input and add substance to that roadmap, in the process sealing his reputation as the only Filipino REALLY qualified to talk about the future of Mindanao.
In summary, what used to be bad became somewhat good because the successor is worse! And in order to keep the bad looking bad, the lovers of the worse want to sanitize the worse, making it look good, but in fact, it’s still worse!
Also, if this suggestion is to be believed, the Yellows let Marcos run just to make things look fair, but now they didn’t count on Marcos gaining popularity simply because of the terribleness of the current Aquino regime. So they’re now doing damage control by damaging the other party, using a school of all things. A fat lot of good that’s gonna do.
Hahaha. I’m still not voting for him though. No sane person would.
@marius,
Mental age of a child? Nice rhetoric you have there, son.
Read the acts he’s written. Draw your own conclusions. Someone who does not understand the chemistry of hydrogen and water, or who thinks the serving size of restaurant rice is a pressing concern of the government, is not the right man to lead the nation.
Benign0: you seem to be arguing that, as long as a man isn’t running around like a headless chicken, he’s a prime candidate for leadership. Can’t we aim just a bit higher than that? Or is there literally nobody in their entire country who is even a few steps above mediocre?
You are being very deceptive, marius
Bongbong Marcos authored 57 bill in the 16th Congress and 34 in the 15th Congress.
Which of these were your rationale for claiming that he has a mental age of a child or, when simplified,is retarded?
Irrational hatred towards BBM.
I’m no BBM supporter but if you compare him to you know who, well…just look at BBM’s personal life: the guy is in a happy marriage and his kids are well mannered. That says a lot. Compare that to someone like Noynoy whose relationships don’t even last and is behaving like someone who grew up without any breeding.
Noynoy is a disastrous President. It’s no surprise the tide is turning against him. He didn’t have a vision for the country because he was just forced to run. That’s the reason he simply reacts to situations instead of being proactive.
>> Irrational hatred towards BBM.
I don’t hate him. I’m just appalled that two (at least) intelligent people think he’s fit to run the country.
>> the guy is in a happy marriage and his kids are well mannered.
Seriously, Ilda, is THAT how low your bar is set? Are you saying all the others are wife-beaters with delinquent children?
@marius
Thanks for the compliment. No need to feel appalled because we did not make the rules on who can run for President in the Philippines.
Bongbong Marcos does not have a criminal record so of course he can run for President. In fact, even someone like Erap who was already convicted of plunder still managed to seek the Presidency again back in 2010 and now he is the Manila City mayor. Unbelievable, isn’t it? You just can’t make this stuff up!
I am merely an observer and my latest observation is that some people have this irrational hatred of BBM. I think there are worse public servants around than him. PNoy, anyone?
Above comment doesn’t make any sense.
If Pnoy’s grandfather was a collaborator, Ninoy,a communist sympathizer, and Pnoy himself, a despicable crook; would all that make Ferdinand Marcos a saint, his son a Messiah, and the ‘martial law years’ a lost paradise? This seems to be the drift of Bong-Bong’s cheering squad; and the logic escapes me. Again, if this equation were reversed, would Pnoy’s family be the anointed ones? This is just crazy. One other inanity is the lumping of Ramos’, Erap’s and GMA’s administration into a 30-year-Aquino-dispensation. This is a totally false assumption; one which makes any comparison onerous.
I fully understand that paid hacks need to present some arguments favorable to their benefactors; but is anyone buying these? These pages have become tired and tedious reading.
@vagoneto rieles
No. I didn’t say the Marcoses are saints. Having said that, Martial Law wasn’t just about brutality of Marcos regime. You need to look at why Martial Law was declared and the threat of communism back then. From the accounts of prominent folks like Tiglao and Samonte, they confirmed members of communist group, which Ninoy was a part of, were really hell-bent on wreaking havoc and eventually taking control of the Philippines. Just imagine if they had won. But if you are a communist sympathiser, you wouldn’t understand.
But Ramos became an Aquino ally after EDSA86. Cory should have tried him for his role during Martial Law but she didn’t. She just kept blaming one man for so-called atrocities even though one man couldn’t have done it alone.
GMA was a Cory ally before SC ruling during GMA administration ordered the distribution of Hacienda Luisita. The Aquinos and their followers also helped put Arroyo in power. They were so close that one of the impeachment complaints against Arroyo during her term was “turning a blind eye to the Hacienda Luisita killings in collusion with the hacienda owners”.
Read more about Aquino-Arroyo love /hate relationship here: After Luisita massacre, more killings linked to protest
Here are excerpts:
Later on, Cory apologized to Erap for ousting him. She said she made a mistake. This was after Cory had a falling out with her ally Gloria. Cory got angry at Gloria for ordering the investigation of the farmer’s complaints:
Do you believe me now that Aquinos and their allies have been duping Filipinos for 30 years?
I was referring to 408 and 1863 (which were flagged up by another poster), but when I have time I will happily go through the whole list and point out which ones have no obvious purpose except to extend the reach of the State or waste public money.
What is your view of these two bills? Do they appear to you to be the work of an intelligent man?
I want to be absolutely clear here: I’m not pointing fingers specifically at Marcos. I’m just baffled that anyone would think he stands head-and-shoulders above the rest, or is presidential material.
marius,
As for 408, the point of the bill is for hydrogen research as an alternative fuel source. You’re chemistry beef is regarding this part: Hydrogen is being processed from deuterium which is heavy water or hydrogen water without oxygen. That does not make him retarded.
For 1863, yes, the bill is ridiculous. Still does not prove that he is retarded.
Are you suggesting that Bongbong made zero bills that you consider reasonable?
>> That does not make him retarded.
Not knowing something that a moderately well-schooled twelve-year-old knows is pretty embarrassing. In a president, it would be beyond shameful.
The point here is that he’s setting up and funding an entire department based on a completely stupid premise, ie., that the Philippines has a “deuterium deposit”. Are you really, honestly telling me you don’t smell a rat here?
As I said, I’ll go through the others when I have time.
Ok Marius ikaw na magpresidente mukahang mas magaling ka eh, bakit di ka nagfile ng kandidatura mo? Bakit ayaw mo magdemanda?
John: I assume there is no Tagalog word for ‘non-sequitur’?
Moving the goalpost now, aren’t we, marius. You claimed BBM has a “mental age of a child”. Just because he failed to remember a basic atomic composition of a common molecule does not prove nor show having the
“mental age of a child”.
The point here is that he’s setting up and funding an entire department based on a completely stupid premise, ie., that the Philippines has a “deuterium deposit”.
That is a completely false statement. The Senate Bill 408 is
The point is to research energy harnessed from hydrogen.
>> Just because he failed to remember a basic atomic composition of a common molecule does not prove nor show having the
“mental age of a child”.
Toby, just listen to yourself. Spin it however you like: does “I forgot what hydrogen is, but I’m going to propose an act about it anyway” demonstrate the kind of intelligence you expect from a VP, or even from someone who passed their High School exams? I suggest not. Hence the “mind of a child” comment.
Again: the act makes no sense if you know that hydrogen is not a fuel that you mine from “deuterium deposits”.
The first page of the act is unmitigated nonsense. There are only three possible explanations for this:
1) BBM has the mind of a child.
2) He thinks the average voter has the mind of a child.
3) He didn’t write the act at all, but submitted it on behalf of cronies who see an opportunity to syphon off money.
You can select (2) if you prefer (and frankly, you seem keen to prove him right). However, I’d say a president that thinks it’s amusing to dupe the electorate is a bad president.
As for (3), well … let’s just hope it’s (1) or (2), shall we?
>> That is a completely false statement.
Just to make this crystal clear, Toby:
“Hydrogen is processed from deuterium… This is obtained from the
deep trenches of the world and the world’s largest deposit of deuterium is in the
Philippines. Thus, a breakthrough in blah blah blah … ”
The word “thus” indicates that the whole premise of the act hinges upon said “deposit of deuterium”.
@marius
3) He didn’t write the act at all, but submitted it on behalf of cronies who see an opportunity to syphon off money.
It has to be #3. I encountered that group of “scientists”, 2 Americans + 2 Filipinos + 1 influence peddler, in New York. That was 1999 or 2000. They were telling the Filipino community that Philippines has the largest deposit of deuterium in the world. Biggest deposit is in the Philippine Deep near Surigao. They were asking the Filipinos to organize a corporation for fund raising. BE NATIONALISTIC they said.
First impression I got was that it was a group of swindlers, quite big time.
If true, no way can it compete with oil, because cost of extracting from that depth would just be enormous, uneconomical, and thus not viable.
They finally must have gotten through the office of Marcos, and got him convinced with gobbledegook talk. The influence peddler looks like a snake oil salesman, but gosh he can hypnotize when he gets you to listen to him.
I almost gave a 100USD in NY, but I was seated way in the back, and before the donation box could reach me, I had to go to the toilet for a leak. Walking out, I started thinking and decided not to go back to the room. I said to myself, it must be a hoax.
Add, I remember that deuterium thing got debunked as a hoax.
No marius. You accused BBM of having a “mental age of a child”. You are the one who needs to listen to yourself. An adult with that condition is a retard.
You have not proven your accusation. In fact, you just proven your own accusation to be false.
It just shows what kind of an interlocutor you are, marius: a dishonest one.
You are simply doing pedantry to substantiate your accusation.
So let me make sure I’ve understood you, Toby:
“He’s not a retard! He’s probably just dishonest, lazy, and stupid!”
Awesome. That sounds exactly like a standard-issue Philippine president. Good luck with that.
So you are not man enough to admit your mistake. That’s cute. *pats marius in the head*
Toby: you’re hilarious. You think you’ve scored a major victory by revising your favourite candidate upwards from “clinically retarded” to merely stupid and corrupt?
Do you not realise that it is people like you who make the country a global laughing-stock? Does that somehow make you happy?
The fact that you claim that Bongbong Marcos is my favorite candidate shows how intellectually inept you are. And nice attempt there in making it appear that I made a claim when all I did was question your false accusation.
I simply demonstrated that all you have, like any typical anti-Marcos, is rhetoric. And you did well demonstrating that.
You’re still cute though.*pats marius in the head*
Those “Never Again” YellowTard activists, are like a herd of aheeps, following a lead sheep going on the “matuwid na daan”, directly into a “bangin”.
Anybody can run for public office. Aquino and his minions of followers are: Thieves, Murderers, Plunderers, Incompetent, etc…Yet, they are allowed to run, and are elected into offices.
Ramos was not a good President. Enrile is the worst Political Opportunist and plunderer.
Aquino and Mar Roxas; who are incompetent; scammers; con artists and plunderers ; are even allowed to run.
@marius
I could no longer ignore BBM when he came out with an alternative to BBL. It was quite impressive when he got the majority of the Senate to side with him. I never thought somebody with Marcos as a family name could do that in a body dominated by Yellows. But, when everybody almost got paralyzed in the aftermath of the massacre of the SAF44, BBM got to work, consulting with many groups in Mindanao. I have always opposed BBL because it was a peace deal with just one group; on top of that, it was a group leaning towards ISIS.
So, it was a pleasure to see someone managing to stop it. If it weren’t for the SAF44, and BBM seizing an opportunity, BBL would quite likely be a law by now, and of course, that would have brought war in Mindanao, not peace, despite the propaganda coming from the Palace. The only thing that held me back from jumping with joy was because the supposed hero of the hour was Bongbong.
You see, marius, if there is anybody who should be screaming bloody murder, versus his quest to be VP, it should be me, or to be more accurate, my family, or clan. If I am of the third generation, our first generation were the ones who set-up the first mining operation of magnetite iron in the country. Our clan is quite big, so as individual families, you could not call us wealthy, but we had comfortable lives. I don’t know whether it was a presidential decree or an executive order, I am not sure because I was still in school then, but the operation of the mines had to halt because of an order from the Senior Marcos himself. That was fine if indeed the mining operation was causing environmental damage.
But, that could not be because three years after the closure, a group very much identified with the Marcoses re-opened the mines and, without permission from our company, started rehabilitating our heavy equipments and other assets for immediate use by them. Our family/ clan could no longer react properly because apart from the fact we were already bankrupted, the family was already scattered around the world.
We never got compensated for all those assets and a livelihood they stole. So, right here, you are talking to one adversely affected by ML. I saw all of us dislocated and devastated, and I am only talking of owners of the company. I don’t know what happened to the many employees, it must have been worse for them. What I know is that two of the workers who stayed to guard the premises were shot dead, when they prevented the trespassing of the group mentioned above.
I would never forget that day in a modest house, but with a big backyard, in Daly City in California where three of my uncles got into a fistfight between themselves, and my father, among others, tried to stop them to no avail. The whole thing deteriorated into a kind of melee, the first and the last in the family, and women had to haul the young and the old to another part of the property for safety. It stopped when the police came immediately. It was supposed to be just a simple birthday party of my cousin, an excuse for a family get-together.
It was not the booze that got them, though it was used as the excuse. That time I really didn’t understand what happened, and I am still not clear about it because most in the family don’t want to talk about it even now. But, it had something to do with my uncle who was the company president at the time the mines were closed. It seems he contracted a foreign assassin to do, well, Marcos in. I am not sure if he has already made a partial down payment, or was still about to pay something, but he made a withdrawal from the common funds they were still retaining.
I am not sure who were those who knew the project, but those who didn’t know found out somebody touched the family account and had to ask. Those who didn’t know were of course stunned when they got a hint of what was going on. Millions were involved, I am not sure whether this was in peso or in dollar, but what was sure was that if the project had proceeded, it would have zeroed the precarious last bank account they were still hanging on, without even mentioning the risk of criminal conviction if things went awry. Anyway, grandfather prevailed, and thankfully, the plan was cut at its root.
That should give you, marius, a very good picture how the issue of Marcos could be something very, very emotional to us. I could sound very detached today maybe because I belong to the third generation, but even now, you just say the name Imelda, and my aunties will respond with: “the social climbing bitch”, in the most derogatory fashion in Tagalog, or Spanish.
But, if we let our emotions take the better of us, we would not see what is really going on. For one, if we just consider those who are the loudest in their rhetorics against BBM today, where were they really during the ML years? I could name some of those who really had a good life during those dark days. This is why if you have been following the columns of guys like Bobi Tiglao, Bono Adaza, Alex Magno, Kit Tatad, etc in the broadsheets, and Teddy Locsin, etc on TV, guys who were in the thick of the original anti-Marcos movements, they are questioning the MOTIVES of this new anti-Marcos movement.
Well, for you to understand, let me just quote George Santayana: “History is a pack of lies about events that never happened told by people who weren’t there.” This new movement is proving Santayana correct. They are making Marcos look like Suharto, Pol Pot, Mao, or Rhee. Surely, Marcos wasn’t; his human right victims doesn’t even number 100,000; it is much less than that, when the other dictators I just mentioned run in the millions.
Thing is, where was this movement in the last 30 years. They had all the chance to make Marcos a non-issue by now. But now, they come alive because Bongbong is leading in the surveys? Hypocrites, I would call all of them.
I would not even mention how in 30 years they made the Philippines the basketcase of Asia, how corruption has grown exponentially, etc. That is just about economics, and money problems could be solved by money. What appalled my grandparents and parents when they were alive was the transformation of the culture. My granny lamented how Filipinos could lose their dignity. He kept on saying no Filipino should beg even if they die of starvation as that was the Filipino he knew. Today, mendicancy is the mentality. There is a sense of entitlement everywhere, and yet no sense of responsibility and duty. Society has just disintegrated because we breath the toxic air of distrust, thievery, impunity, etc, and sex seems to have become a preoccupation.
Because of the foregoing, before my father died five years ago, he has already kind of soften relative to his hatred of Marcos; same with my uncles, dead and alive. But also because, his two problematic brothers became responsible citizens. My two uncles, from what I understand, were always collecting their dividends, but never helped the company. The two were often in Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, or Thailand playing and getting screwed. It was a blessing in disguise, the extreme difficulty the family went through changed these two. After that, the two set up a company which became the most successful among them siblings. But, my father said sure sign Philippines was screwed, headed for doom, was because instead of Filipinos going out of the country to get screwed, all Asia now come here to get screwed (pun intended).
But, that is also why I am curious about Bongbong after he made that fantastic move re BBL. Victor Frankl, the famous psychiatrist who survived Auscwhitz, said no man comes out of an intense downfall or suffering the same human being. Never mind about financial reversals or physical tortures, it is the mental anguish that kills. One comes out of such ordeal either bitter, feeling the world owes them, or thankful for the privilege of such an experience, quite confident, but humbled, they were chosen worthy of such suffering. I suspect PNoy, and her sister Kris, seem the ones who came out bitter and feeling now the world owes them big time, and that may explain their psychology and their motivations today, and they make the Philippines suffer.
I am not sure yet, but Bongbong seems to be the thankful kind, happy to be given a second chance. Everything is a bonus hereafter. Of course, he will not apologize. Beside the point that this is a high stake political power play, gosh, this is a culture that thinks apology is weakness of character, instead of strenght in character. But if he cannot apologize by words, he is already doing it by actions. Think about it, Ilocos, of which he was a governor and where his sister is now, is the province growing its middle class the fastest in the country. Tourism and agriculture are in boom. Province has the lowest energy cost. And note this, the only LGU that has ISO9000, and thus, systemized. The accounting audit by COA says the province is always clean as a whistle. You can check what he has done in Congress, as well as what he is doing in the Senate; these are in the web. Yet, media suppresses news about them. To me, that is an apology in the works, an apology in progress. It is an apology better than just words.
The guy knows what he is doing. I say this using his speech in front of Asian CEO Forum. I wrote an article about that.. His speech may have been written by a speechwriter. But, it is way better than the speechwriter of PNoy who just graduated college in 2010. Of course, PNoy cannot use old professional speechwriters who have depth and sense of history. How can PNoy read a speech that goes way above his head, so he has been using in the last six years a writer in his twenties, a kid really, just like PNoy? Bongbong read that great speech, I assume he understood it.
Of course, Marcoses will NOT YET return the stolen money. I happened to be still living in Ayala Alabang, when there was news about the many mansions being built supposedly owned by PCGG lawyers. It was the time when the job of PCGG was frantic and they employed many lawyers and investigators to chase whatever Marcos stole. It was true because you just around go around the quiet subdivision, all of a sudden there were a lot of activities. How can you return money that way. To be plundered again? If anything, we cannot ask the Marcoses to be stupid.
We also can not take away from them their right to redeem their name. That is an inalienable right of anyone. My suspicion is that Marcos is a psychologically changed family, and they will redeem their name.. And that is why PNoy is afraid. It will prove EDSA1 was a mistake. All our neighbours transitioned from dictatorship to democracy without a revolt, and yet they overtook us. EDSA1 was in 1986. Berlin Wall was in 1989. If we only had the crystal ball, and had the patience to wait like our neighbors did, then maybe, we would not have had this leadership vacuum we still are experiencing today. But, still hoping people will come out of this ordeal thankful, not bitter. But, people have to stop all the stupidity and propaganda now.
Saying all the above using my brain, I tell you, suppressing my emotion.
Sorry, I got the bold in reverse
Wow, what a story you shared here, Add. It seems similar to what I posted above: What used to be bad became somewhat good because the successor is worse. And in order to keep the bad looking bad, the lovers of the worse want to sanitize the worse, making it look good, but in fact, it’s still worse. It’s a situation how backward our society is even at the intellectual level. Perhaps Kate Natividad’s article to the right about intellectuals also “dumbing-down” could apply to this case.
Exactly, Chino.
Impressive, Mr. Add!
I do hope the anti-Marcoses would not demonize you as well.
Thanks, Toby
Ya, hope not, Toby. But, they should wake up. Acquaintances we have in mainland US, Hawaii, and Guam, who in one way of the other were also adversely affected by ML, have also changed their minds because of what has transpired in the PHL in the last 30 years, specifically in the last six years.
Just last Dec, our friend in Hawaii sent BBM USD500. We asked why he would send money to a rich guy. It is for moral support in a concrete way, he said. He said the Yellows are creating too many poor people; they have to be stopped.
Wow, can I copy these in FB later? Actually, this was utterly gold. You almost hit right in the head!
Sure, DIO.
Add: that’s one hell of a story. I’ve heard similar ones from other people. To move on from that, psychologically, is an immense achievement.
You are one of the posters here who always writes intelligently and thoughtfully. You clearly know a lot about what goes on behind the scenes – far more than I would ever have access to.
My point has always been much the same as yours: by their fruit shall you know them. I skimmed through the acts sponsored by Marcos Jr., and they’re a mixed bag, ranging from the enlightened to the outrageously stupid. That in itself is odd. One person could not have written all of them. That suggests to me that he’s being bought and sold.
I focused on the “deuterium deposit” one because it stood out: as I said earlier, there are only three possible explanations for its existence, and none of them are palatable. What do you think?
It bothers me that such a transparent scam could have gotten all the way to BBM, and – note this – that is actually passed. It suggests either that:
1) Most Filipinos, including the people running the country, do not know what deuterium or hydrogen is. As I said to Toby, this isn’t rocket science: it’s something every European schoolkid learns in the first year of high school.
2) Everyone along the chain knew quite well that it was a scam, but figured they’d be getting a cut of the spoils.
I suspect it’s a bit of both: if it were a scam, the scammers must have been confident that the vast majority of the general public have absolutely no clue about chemistry/physics.
The arguments here all seem to be on a similar theme: “BBM is better than Noynoy”. Well, yes. But that’s not too difficult, is it? You could drop a carabao in the big chair and things would improve. I think there was a thread about that.
Now it may be that the Congress is entirely packed with thieves and drooling idiots, and that BBM – whatever his faults – is the best of an irredeemable bunch. It may be that his people skills override his (which is it?) gullibility, ignorance, or venality. God knows people skills are what the country needs. As you correctly point out, the failures are mostly human ones, not specifically economic or technical.
I don’t know the answers. Roh Tae-woo was a figure similar to Fidel Ramos, and look at Korea today. History works in mysterious ways. I’m just suggesting that people double-check who they vote for, because you don’t get any second chances in the Philippines.
>> How can you return money that way. To be plundered again? If anything, we cannot ask the Marcoses to be stupid.
That’s a very good point. But would it not be possible for BBM to make a statement to that effect? Maybe I’m being naive – if he does have such an intent, possibly he knows what thin ice he’s walking on.
Hi @marius
“But would it not be possible for BBM to make a statement to that effect?”
I think it was TV5 news last month where I saw him saying they remain open to negotiation. I think, however, that was just a soundbyte for election purposes, because as far as I know no serious sit-down negotiation is currently going on between the govt and the family. What they are doing today is just recycling news, and spinning them as new, those that were already recovered during the time of Cory and Ramos, which is the time in which bulk of what they claim has been recovered was recovered. From that time, I think further recovery have been negligible.
What I know is that the last serious sit-down negotiation between the govt and the family was in the middle of the term of Gloria. That bogged down quickly, I heard, because Mike Arroyo was trying to insert himself in the deal when he has no business meddling in govt affairs since he is just the husband of the president. Even then, informal talks are ever present because thankfully there are still a few well-intentioned bureaucrats, the career ones, not the political proteges, who want to settle the matter so the country could move on.
The more serious talks are under the radar of the media, and cover the more substantive amounts, for the simple reason that once media gets into the picture, things get more complicated. I had better behind the scene info during the time of Ramos and Erap for the simple reason that one of the daughters of Ramos is a friend of mine, and one (the respectable one, not the goons) of the “midnight cabinets” of Erap happens to be a fellow I was trying to work out a business in Hong Kong at one time.
But, If I go by the info then, which I will admit may be outdated, I think the Marcoses were eager as much as everyone else to settle the matter. Most of their accounts are frozen, so the earlier the matter is settled, it will not only be the country benefitting, but also them.
Beyond that I cannot say more without sounding stupid. The negotiations have been very complicated, and good part flies over my head. Portions that include gold is a big dispute because even if it was Marcos who found the treasure, government lawyers are saying Marcos is only entitled to a finder’s fee. But, this is also the portion which the Marcoses are using to prove not all their assets.were plundered.
The short answer is that if they may not be issuing clear statements, I think the desire to settle the matter is very much there since that is what they showed during Ramos time.
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Oh, I really don’t know how a bill on deuterium got passed. But, you should not be surprised, marius, because 80% of the laws in the Philippines are worthless. They go by quantity than quality. And if it is not a hot button issue, I suspect the legislators don’t even read their bills, leaving their respective chiefs of staff to just okay them. It is only you know that the heart of a Congressman or a Senator is behind a bill, if he fights for budget allocation for it during the budget deliberations.
And yes, BBM may be better than PNoy, but he also is no saint. One couldn’t be a saint when you are in the company of crooks, shysters and devils.. The evil of one man rule is that it failed to have developed new leaders. Gone are the days when Congress had great orators, brilliant statemen, and thinkers
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Thanks for the compliments. You also are very thoughtful in your comments. I learn from your comments re agri-business, engineering and science.
So does this mean the Marcoses are trying to return the “loot,” but there are some out there who are trying to block this because it will deprive them of a scapegoat to use for their fearmongering methods? Sounds interesting.
@Add
Nice post! Can you name who these people are behind this “group very much identified with the Marcoses”?
@PIN
It’s lead by a guy with the initials of R.A. I would prefer not to give info beyond that. He eventually sold the operation to another group and moved on to another business. I don’t want to open an old wound, but the guy though gone now, the children have become powerful local warlords.
will vote receipts initiate vote buying? YES! vote receipts should not be taken out of the precinct. it’s just for the voters to see that their votes is counted in under their names. make sense!
Seriously, it should be obvious; all this attention on BBM is the latest attempt to draw attention off the crimes and misdeeds of the Aquinos and allies. It’s basically “look! there’s the enemy!” then while we’re distracted they scurry off to hide. Oldest trick in the book, but so old, it won’t work on us.
The only resort we have, is: forget about the Marcos Martial Law, EDSAs, and move on.
Martial Law atrocities were committed by : Ramos, Enrile , Honasan, etc…if we talk about these atrocities, we put on the forefront these Martial Law Brutes. They were the designers of Marcos Martial Law. The jailers and torturers/murderers of Martial Law victims.
It is laughable to accuse Sen. Ferdinand Marcos, Jr., of these Martial Law atrocities. He was just a boy, at that time.
Those “Never Again” activists, should Focus on the present issues of the government. Past is past…it is done. It is History.
However, Aquino and Mar Roxas wanted the Ghost of Marcos Martial Law to be resurrected. It served them as a “Diversionary Tactic”, to SCARE people; to cover :their incompetence; their being thieves; their tremendous plundering of the National Treasury; the massacres and murders, under their responsibilities; the scams, they made, like the “Lag Lag Bala” at NAIA; the Aquino land scam, like the Hacienda Luisita; the BBL Law scam, they sponsored;the Land Reform Program , that Aquino shelved, to protect his Hacienda Luisita; the Typhoon Yolanda Relief Effort Failure of Mar Roxas; Mar Roxas stealing the missing Typhoon Yolanda Relief Funds; etc…etc…
It is glaring to see that these “Never Again” YellowTards are politically motivated, and financed and supported by Aquino and Mar Roxas, and the Liberal Party, with the help of their Oligarch patrons.
Can we please disabuse our minds, (and not be insulting), by saying that Bong-Bong Marcos was ‘just an innocent boy’ during the martial law years. The man was born in 1957. He was 15 in 1972 when martial law was inflicted on the country, and a fully aware, grown man of 29 when he and his family fled Malacanang. This is somebody who knows where “the bodies are buried”, (relax.. that’s just a very apt cliche). Do I worry that he might become a corrupt and ruthless President one day? You bet your ass I do. Will I be surprised? No, not at all. Given his heritage and the electorate’s profile, I’d even expect it.
Hey, YellowTard/WorryWart…worry about Aquino and Mar Roxas , selling our country to the ISIS/Al Queda and MILF…
Hi,
“..tard”..is that the best you can do? Really?
Right back at you desperate yellowtard! Hey how about if I call your brother a criminal then if you even killed someone? Are you failipinos really THAT low?
@vagoneto rieles:
You are another YellowTard/Worrywart; who should be worrying on Aquino and Mar Roxas :incompetence, irresponsibillities, thieveries; plunder; their lack of sympathy/concern to the victims of the 44 SAF Heroes of the Mamapasano massacre.
Mar Roxas cannot distinguish between a Misencounter and a Massacre. Aquino thinks that the 44 SAF heroes, were invading the territories of his MILF/ISIS/Al Queda buddies. Aquino allowed the 44 SAF Heroes to be massacred. The same way , he allowed the Luneta Chinese tourists , to be massacred.
Hi Toro 007,
I can’t argue this one.
At the risk of sounding callous and indifferent, I’d state once again that the SAF raid on the MILF’s Mamasapano stronghold within the ARMM area, was an ill-advised raid.. a surprise attack.. to capture or neutralize two MILF bomb makers. The renegades fought back and inflicted a lopsided drubbing on the SAF raiders. The SAF planners were simply inadequate as to not expect a hostile reaction, and for not having a workable exit strategy. In the mopping-up process, the MILF cruelly mutilated and morbidly robbed the dead of their belongings. This latter part was ghastly and ghoulish and must be condemned. The raid and the resulting stand-off, however, was an understandably natural reaction and should be viewed as such.. unless, of course, we expected the MILF to “turn the other cheek”. The SAF raiders simply lacked leadership, went ‘half-cocked’ and subsequently lost; and, the hosts of the two bombers prevailed.
The raid should have been planned better.. and by more qualified strategists. Otherwise, the armed incursion into the MILF should have been discarded in favor of a firm, non-violent demand.. with caveats..for the surrender of the bomb makers in a more neutral venue. Unless, of course, the MILF were expected to just bend over and hand them to the raiders in Mamasapano.
@vagoneto rieles:
What a stupid story. Who sent those 44 SAF heroes, to their deaths? Why was a suspended Police involved in the operation?So, there was no planning? No exit strategy? And, Aquino and Mar Roxas, approved the operation?
Aquino and Mar Roxas were involved in this operation. Why was Aquino , not there to receive the bodies of the massacred 44 SAF heroes? Why did Mar Roxas called this massacre a “misencounter?
Aquino and Mar Roxas were selling to us, to approve, the BBL Law . So, in my opinion, they were trying to appease the MILF/ISIS/Al Queda… The BBL Law would had given territory to the MILF/ISIS/Al Queda. It would also finance them , billions of pesos, of taxpayers’ money , every year.
Are you trying to make me believe you, that these behaviors of Aquino and Mar Roxas, toward the MILF/AL Queda/ISIS,after the massacre, not an appeasement? They tried to make us accept the BBL Law.
@vagoneto rifles:
An ISIS/Al Queda, representative was even allowed to testify in the “Batasan Pambansa”, having an “Alias” name, to promote the approval of the BBL Law, on the request of Aquino and Mar Roxas.
If this is not TREASON, like what Benign Aquino, Sr. , did during the Japanese Imperialist occupation. What do you call this? Coddling an enemy of the Republic.
Hello Toro 007,
I am sending you the comments I made some two months ago, with a view to put your mind at ease; or, to at least know that I take no side in these arguments. I am simply on the side of what’s right. If still you don’t get it, you might need some professional help. Please have a good day.
“I had always been very vocal about my objection and condemnation of the BBL in its entirety. My position on the matter, today, has not changed; if it has, at all, it is towards a more vigorous rejection of this blatant cowardly expedient. I would say again..”The President, Mesdames Quintos-Deles and Coronel-Ferrer are, at best, dilettantes, who are poised to cavalierly piss away roughly 10% of Philippine territory for less than 5% of her population, at the behest of a poorly masked terror group, under a thinly veiled threat of more deadly barbarity in our southernmost islands. At worst, they are selfish and narrow minded public servants out for a dubious legacy which they could add on to their thin resumes”. The country needs a BBL as much as a race horse needs a plow.
Now..’Mamasapano and the gallant 44′: Mamasapano was a military operation to capture and/or neutralize two ‘terrorist-bomb-makers’ who were holed up among, and protected by, the MILF, (for whom the BBL talks were initiated), in territory covered by the ARMM mandate. The operation, being a raid, was done stealthily, under cover of darkness, and unbeknownst to the MILF. The MILF’s reaction..to fight and push back.. should have been anticipated. In the firefight, there were casualties.. as is to be expected in any shooting encounter. Unfortunately, the body count, 17 to 44 was lopsided in the MILF’s favor. To my mind, fierce and tragic as it turned out, it has to be viewed as a straightforward military operation where the casualty was inordinately high. But that’s as far as it should go. I should expect, though, that should there be another… that encounter must turn out differently.
All that being said, the matter of the planning, the execution and, the handling of the Mamasapano operation, not only leaves a lot to be desired.. it leaves a lot of unanswered questions. Why was a suspended General assigned to call the shots.. (and),from Camp Crame? (Note that General Purisima had never had a posting anywhere in Mindanao. His knowledge of conditions in the battlefield…terrain, available cover, landmarks and relative distances.. was as good or as bad the President’s). Was the President who was conveniently and strategically in Zamboanga.. as the firefight was ongoing.. actively engaged in the conduct of the raid? What was General Napenas, who was on the other side of the shallow creek and away from his troopers, allowed to decide on.. without being countermanded from ‘Crame’ or Zamboanga? There are many more questions that an ordinary layman may not see. However, just these three questions, if truthfully answered, would put most of us at ease. We might then.. as the tired cliche goes.. “move on”.”
Says the hypocrite who can’t also move on from the “evil dictator’s” martial law. Congratulations for shooting your own foot dimwit.
An ISIS/Al Queda/MILF representative….(corrected)….
@vagoneto rieles:
Move on? There are patterns of misbehavior that Aquino and Mar Roxas had done. Have you ever heard of the word: “Command Responsibility”?
The 44 SAF heroes were massacred , without mercy…a suspended Police, whom you had stated, was not familiar with the terrain, was in charge. Who ordered him to be there? Who ordered him to take command of the operation? Let us bring Purisima out; and “torture” him, so that he will talk.
Aquino was nearby in Zamboanga, as you stated. Why did he not ordered air or artillery support? Or, reinforcements? Aquino was petrified…the same way, he hid during the Luneta Chinese Hostage massacre.
Napenas is the “escape goat” of Aquino, Mar Roxas and Purisima. I believe, that if Aquino, Mar Roxas, and Purisima, did the right decisions. The 44 SAF Heroes would had been saved. And, the operation would not been that worse. It may had been a victory, if overwhelming force, was applied. The trouble is: they did nothing, during those critical hours. Any person, with a little understanding of military operation; would had done better, that these clowns.
There should be a Truth Commission, consisting of concerned Filipino citizens, who love their country, to look deeper , into the matter. Let the chips, fall where it may…
We cannot let these incompetent and idiotic people go unpunished. We cannot move on…we move on…to seek the Truth…
I don’t care what your position on the BBL Law. However, the result of the Mamapasano massacre; the way Aquino showed no sympathy to the 44 Fallen Heroes; the way Mar Roxas called the massacre a “misencounter”. The way Purisima is hiding and, not talking; the way they point to Napenas , for all the blame. These things speak for themselves. They are all trying to hide the Truth from us. We are taxpayers. We want to know , if our money is spent well.
A truth that’s told with bad intent, beats all the lies you can invent.
It’s not the issue of bloodlines. Fact is that Ferdinand Marcos stole a lot of public funds. Many of these funds are still in possession of the Marcos clan.
If Bongbong were a good politician he would say: “In the name of the Marcos family I apologize for the misbehavior of my parents and high ranked government officials during martial law. I apologize for the disappearances, the tortures and murders under rul of my parents.”
But Bongbong is doing the opposite. He tries to defend has parents and tries to portray them as good rulers.
And that’ss the issue: Bongbong’s attempt to twist history, not his bloodline!
Bongbong’s defense is more like, “we did not steal the money or order killings, but someone else did.”
So id others stole the money how came it in possession of the Marcos clan? And if the funds are in possession of FM and his family why didn’t they return them? And the killings and tortures, why didn’t FM order an investigation?