#IglesiaNiCristo (INC) has been a trending topic now for several hours since yesterday. The picture that Top Gear Philippines posted on social media says all the reasons why it is trending. Motorists and commuters are steamed by the rally INC has decided to hold in front EDSA Shrine, and at the nearby intersection of EDSA and Shaw Blvd, without prior notice to the public — a warning could have allowed motorists to avoid the area. The rally has put EDSA, the major circumferential road of Metro Manila, into a virtual standstill.
Carmageddon on EDSA thanks to the Iglesia Ni Cristo rally.
(Source: Top Gear Philippines)
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The government oppression that INC is referring to is the move by Department of Justice (DOJ) to entertain the case of a minister whom INC just expelled and who claims he was detained by INC against his will for several days. INC claims that by entertaining this minister with the view of assisting him in filing a case against INC, DOJ Secretary Leila de Lima is meddling in what is supposed to be an internal affair of a religious organization, never mind if it was the minister who approached DOJ for help. Illegal detention is a serious crime, but INC can’t understand why Sec de Lima seems to have given this minister undue priority when there are more cases of national import pending in her desk. But it is simple to understand. Sec de Lima used to be a human rights lawyer. It has to be that this is something intuitive with the Secretary when she sees a case against human rights, as that of above mentioned minister, is as equally important as all the other cases pending at the DOJ.
INC is known to vote en bloc, and they make no effort to hide that they are a monolithic organization. They even encourage the news that it is their voting ways that has put into office Joseph Estrada and Gloria Macapagal Arroyo. This is the reason why candidates court the support of their leadership during elections. It would be interesting to note in the coming days to see if the administration of President Benigno Simeon Aquino III (PNoy) will give in to the pressure of this group that tries hard to be the top kingmaker in Philippine politics. It is interesting to see if the administration of PNoy has principles, or operates based on vague political expediencies.
However the decision of the PNoy administration will end up, INC has already shown that they will brook no dissent whether it is internal or external. They will go to extent of snarling a traffic in a major part of the capital city of a country, if only to prove their point. Never mind if there are people trying to catch a flight. Never mind if there are ambulances on emergency calls that could mean life and death. Never mind if there are millions of people just trying to get home from a long, tiring day of work. Never mind if there are thousands of trucks that urgently need to deliver goods on time so that there is smooth commerce. Maybe, it is a way INC wants to tell the public that traffic could be fatal in order to prove DOTC Sec Abaya wrong when he said that traffic is not fatal.
If INC has shown that they don’t care about public safety and health, two of the persons aspiring to be a President of the Republic have also shown their true color. With the case of the minister still being clarified and no case has yet been filed, these two presumptive presidential candidates have already decided that the DOJ is wrong. Can we please ask them the basis for their decision? Grace Poe and Jojo Binay said that government should not be meddling with something internal to INC. Never mind Binay who everybody knows is a TraPo (traditional politician), but a neophyte like Poe? What is with INC that could transform a seemingly untainted newcomer into TraPo, already protecting vested interests like she was a veteran of it? How do Poe and Binay know the government is meddling; have they listened to aggrieved party who appears now as being scared of his life?
Our understanding is that religion is supposed to bring out the best in people. Well, in less than 48 hours, they have managed to transform motorists and commuters into beasts. Just look at what these people have been posting in social media. But let us set that aside because we want to know how they are impacting our leaders. Just recently, Bureau of Customs (BOC) Chief John Sevilla resigned because he could not give in to the lobby INC was pushing regarding an critical appointment in the agency. That hurt us because the new BOC Chief now wants to mess with balikbayan boxes. That is just one example of their meddling with government and is the most recent, but they have been meddling since the beginning. And, they accuse the government of meddling? Will Sec de Lima also resign now just because of them? That is not bringing out the best from our people and our leaders, does it?
We are all for Freedom of Expression, as well as Freedom of Religion, but when they do such things to us who are not part of their religion, can we at least ask if they are a religion when they are acting like they are not a religious organization, but a political one? Worse, they are acting like a business corporation?
The trouble they are inflicting on the public seems to be a result of their internal troubles. They are a very secretive society, but from the bits and pieces that are leaking, it appears that there is an on-going strife among their leaders. One faction is questioning what is the need of their leader buying a Php 1 billion worth of property in Forbes Park and a private plane which all seem to be just for the private use of the leader. They are also questioning why they had to build so large a venue, the Philippine Arena, which seems to have more of a secular character to it. There are also accusations of corruption among the management group that they call Sanggunian. While we don’t care whether they are growing or squandering their money, and for heaven’s sake, we really don’t, and shouldn’t care, is it too much to ask that they keep their fights among themselves without say, snarling a traffic? It is very hard to imagine that if there was a squabble among stockholders in say, Philippine Airlines or Philex Mining, that the public be made to suffer only because the companies have internal fights.
They are acting like they are not a religion because it is likely that, indeed, they are not a religion. They call themselves Iglesia ni Cristo, or Church of Christ, and consider themselves as Christians. We can therefore assume that they are referring to the same Jesus Christ whom all other Christians believe in. Unlike other Christians, however, INC insists that Jesus is just a man. If Jesus is just a man, then it can be said that their group can be called the Church of a Man. And yet, we always thought that religion had something to do with something divine. So, could they consider themselves a religion if they are just a church of a man. There is another religion that follows a man, and they call themselves ISIS. This group is trying to get to heaven by letting other people in Iraq and Syria suffer. Is this the reason why when INC is pursuing something they see to it that the public suffers?
Stephen Colbert, of Comedy Central fame, in a recent interview, quoted J R R Tolkien (author of Lord of the Rings): “What punishments of God are not gifts?”. Colbert was talking of a time when his father and brother died, and he said he had learned not only to accept what had happened but actually to rejoice in it. Flummoxed, the interlocutor had to ask again, and that is when Colbert quoted Tolkien. Of course, the interlocutor, and for that matter non-Christians, still didn’t understand. But, suffering takes a meaning only Christians understand, and that is why when the first Christians were being persecuted by the Roman Empire, they bear their suffering quietly. Imagine even a comedian, who happens to be a Christian, understood this. For sure, the first Christians didn’t stop the traffic of horses, carts and cattles in any part of the Empire.
If INC call themselves Christian and they insist that theirs is a church of a man and don’t understand suffering as even Colbert understands it, but understand it the way ISIS understands it, what does that make of INC. Shouldn’t we suspect them of deceit and prevarication?
In any event, we really don’t care what they believe. And, we have to emphasize this, we don’t care. For all we know, they might be worshipping the moon and the stars, or just the money and power they appear to be obsessed with, who cares?!?!. All we ask is please do not disturb us, so we won’t disturb you.
GRP Featured Comment hall-of-famer. Former executive of the Far East Regional Office of a US-based multinational company living out of a suitcase covering the market from Tokyo to Mumbai to Melbourne, and all the countries within that triangle. Got tired after logging 300k air miles per year. Now, I just have a little trading biz on specialty chemicals.
I find it ironic that a nation so renowned for scams is itself so gullible. Nowhere else in the world would the INC have such a committed following of bovine idiots.
Hopefully all this legal wrangling will uncover a few skeletons in the INC’s closet and remove the blinkers from the eyes of a few of the party faithful. Sadly, I imagine 95% of them will defend the INC and their godless behaviour, the way people still defend F. and I. Marcos.
Those temples to Satan freak me out whenever I have to walk past one. I hope we don’t have to wait for Judgement Day to see them torn down.
Who do you you are to say that? I suppose you are you just sour-graping.
Yes, the INC believed in the doctrine that it is headed by a man – special man – in the person of “Lord Jesus Christ”. But that does not necessarily put INC in a limelight position that it is only a church of man. This is because Lord Jesus came from the Lord God — which makes the INC a church of man, and at the same time — a church of God. Remember, the INC’s difference with the mainstream religions is that.. it has never believed in the concept of Trinity as “God/Creator” in three personas. Rather INC believed that Our Creator Who created the whole universe, including its systems and other hierarchy of behaviors, is ABSOLUTELY ONE and that He raised Jesus from absolute unconsciousness/death through His divine power. That “GOD” is the “God of Israel” and “The Father” Whom INC regards and worships regularly. And these are all based in the Bible’s instructions considering “all the pages — from New Testament to Old Testament” — not disregarding the other verses just to consider the other verse. Moreover, all through acts made perfect through the “considered good works” in the Bible, not of man, that salvation can be fully realized. This was because that all of men had sinned and are under the power of “disorder/chaos/misunderstandings”. God’s plan for His creations (whole earth) is to put every men under Christ which can only materialize or be visualized through the church God has prophesied (Isaiah, Revelations, Romans Bible verses).
This is the reason , I do not believe in Organized Religion. They are political, not religious. They meddle in the affairs of the government; affecting those outside their religion.
Look at ISIS/AL QUEDA…they murder people, make women as sex slaves; and afflict people; who do not belong to their religion. They do suicide bombings also, to prove their point.
If this is not insanity. what do you call this thinking?
The Amorous De Lima has some vested interest in entertaining the complaint of that INK Minister. De Lima is interested with their Block Votes. Maybe, she wants to run for higher public office…
I can always count on GRP for insightful POVs and this article is no exception. A crime was allegedly committed and for that reason alone it deserves to be heard. The reasoning of INC’s leaders is flawed. In fact, their line of thinking alludes to admitting to the crime. Prioritize SAF44 and leave the Church alone? So, let’s say that in theory the SAF44 issue is resolved does that then make it okay to try the ministers of INC for illegal detention? And what is the proof that the illegal detention case is prioritized over SAF44?
Perhaps the ex-minister of INC should file his case to the UN Human Rights Commission. Let’s see then what the leaders have to say. I hope they’re not planning on telling the UN that they have other things they should prioritize. Because it is not in their place to tell any government body what is more important and what isn’t to begin with.
A comprehensive view of this whole thing with the Iglesia ni Cristo, I must say, Add.
4 million likes. 😀
This is obviously a Show of Force because:
Possible Reason 1:
Ayaw nilang pinapakialaman sila kahit pa may alleged abductions of 10 INC ministers (human rights violation).
Possible Reason 2:
Government Harassment
If they cannot control or get the INC bloc votes (given to Poe or Binay?),
DOJ threaten to press charges & remove entire Church Council assisting the Executive Minister in overseeing the entire Church based on mere accusations that can’t be substantiated.
In a Goon (Mafia) Society like the Philippines – people will simply group together to gain majority, to rule over minority and abuse that power. Thus, people (including Leaders) form/join Group for protection, to be stronger and be spoiled in many ways = lazy & idle mind. The Goon concept applies to Religions, Politics/Government, Media, Showbiz, Sports, public or private sectors. And conflicts will happen if common interest of a certain group (INC) clashes with another group (Government or LP party),
Religion, is like a peni$.
It’s okay to have one.
It’s okay to be proud of it.
…
But please don’t whip it out in public and start waving it around, trying to shove it down everybody’s throat.
So please don’t shove your peni$ any where and at any time you want!!
“Religion, is like a peni$.
It’s okay to have one.
It’s okay to be proud of it.
…
But please don’t whip it out in public and start waving it around, trying to shove it down everybody’s throat.
So please don’t shove your peni$ any where and at any time you want!!”
nice quote! can i share this?
If only “Religion” can be cut off easily from a person, Lorena Bobbit style.
You said it ADD. It’s really sad to see how organized religion can be used for the wrong reasons. Heck, I think I’ll include it in my “sermon” tomorrow.
IMO this is just a publicity stunt to promote the Felix Manalo movie.
Excerpt from Manila times’ article (http://www.manilatimes.net/officials-urged-stand-up-against-iglesia-tyranny/214125/):
“By noon, the protest program shifted to a concert-like assembly amid heavy rain.
Organizers also showed the trailer of a film based on the life story of INC founder Felix Manalo starring actor Dennis Trillo.”
When I hear comments like, “hey, let them block traffic, it is their right to protest like this…”
I recall the Dongyan wedding “Hoy, let them na, this is their right, this is their happiness naman noh.”
I’ll be terribly corny here, pero, at least ang DongYan maganda sa paningin at hindi nag-cause ng traffic at hassle. Hahah~
Their right to protest ends where my right to call them assholes for making me miss an important appointment begins. I couldn’t really care less if these morons worship German Moreno or Krusty The Clown but the moment that crap touches me in how I conduct my day to day activities then they deserve insults and whatever bodily harm ordinary people like me wish upon them.
The right to protest/demonstration still has to be okay-ed by city council. Well at least in civilized modern societies.
It has to be okay-ed exactly for the possible consequences laid out above in the article (traffic jams, missing flights, ambulances etc).
For me just another sign, we are dealing with a dysfunctional society AND that people keep on following a religion blindly.
and they just left their trash everywhere. someone posted in FB when a reporter asked one of the members about his understanding what secularism is. the man paused, then replied, ” . . . well, we just follow what our minister said.”
😀
Even the “how and when” they got their permit to assemble a demonstration was dubious. They were already there for a couple of days (they were supposed to get one before they actually stage a protest) and they got their permit on a non-working day, a Saturday! The separation of church and state, even in this example, has been blurred beyond recognition.
@Sammie,
They could have gotten my symphathy vote in case they simply assembled/demonstrated/protested in an open park in MNL. Now they disrupted and interruped daily life, so they lost my symphathy vote.
They actually have a huge-ass place to assemble (Philippine Arena, a stone’s throw away from where I live) and they also have the means to air it on TV, but what did they choose to do? They acted like a kid who wasn’t given a candy and decided to bawl and throw tamtrums on the road.
@Sammie,
What is the capacity of the PA? Probably the head of INC expected more protesting people than the PA can hold. Plus making waves and disrupting daily life, brings far more attention to the cause (and case).
PS: From pictures I saw, it is an impressive building, Philippine Arena (PA)
As per their site and PRs, it can house 50k-53k people inside the indoor arena. And there’s also the Philippine Sports Stadium which can accommodate 25k. So more than enough to house them all.
But of course, if they did what I suggested, their little raly won’t be making any news now.
*rally
(How I hate spelling/typing hazards! LOL)
@Sammie,
Its just a flaw in the website’s design. WordPress should have designed it with an “edit” option.
“But of course, if they did what I suggested, their little raly won’t be making any news now.” => I think so too.
We don’t need your symphaty Mr. Haighton.
The INC have made their grievance at Padre Faura and the whole nation was informed through day long media coverage in both radio, TV and newsprints. So, why go to EDSA which they say is the “symbol of freedom”? Why do they not go to their Philippine Arena which they say is the symbol of their unity so that non-INC members and the general public will not be terribly inconvenienced. Converging in their Philippine Arena won’t need government permits to rally any day and how long they may want…until INC leaders say it’s time to stop and go home or up to when Sec de Lima changes her position or resign.
Riot police, tear gas and batons….. The only logical solution to groups causing public nuisance and mass inconvenience.
Hear hear!
it is the responsibility of the state to stop anything that obstructs the flow of traffic and society as a whole. again the wrong notion of democracy/liberty was shown.
Well said, ADD.
In my opinion, however, the DOJ is last Gov Agency INC should fear.
DOJ is “All Show, No Go”. The “Maguindanao case will last 200 years and the Supreme Court will have all the PDAF defendants back on the Senate floor in time for Christmas, Campaigning and Corruption.
“Grace Poe and Jojo Binay said that government should not be meddling with something internal to INC.”
they’re wrong. anyone who committed a crime will be answerable to the government. the separation of church and state means that the church has no right to meddle with politics and only focus on their religion. the church will simply be just part of the population.
mag aral mo na kayo ng constitution bago kayo magcomment. English pa kayo ng english eh pinoy naman kayo. Magtagalog kayo!!! parang ganyan lang yan.
Modern day colonialist detected. Red herring argument.
Oh..please, now the INC members are complaining of unfair threatment of this government specially DOJ, you’re not there to support INC? But on your previous blogs you complained too much on how poor the government handling our crisis. Parang nawala yung credibility mong magsulat, hindi mo nakita yung malaking chance to air your grievances and chance to have changes on how this BS government poorly handling the situation from Yolanda, Mamasapano, PDAF, DAP, CJ Impeachment etc.. you hated INC too much and miss the bigger picture of this fight!
#UniteWithINC
I want to but I have yet hear from the INC leaders how do they define separation of state and church. I share in other’s belief that Sec. De Lima is just doing her job. Some people are asking why the DOJ is treating this case differently when cases like the SAF 44 has not even resolved yet. Well, not that I am siding with the DOJ, I think it just so happen that the INC case is in her desk and she needs to attend to it. If this is being made a big deal, well, I got two reasons in my mind: (1) they caused road obstruction that is why the people noticed them, angrily; and (2) the media is putting much attention to this.
It should be remembered that a case was filed to the DOJ by some aggrieved members of the INC and a government agency acting on complaints of aggrieved citizens, don’t you agree that this is not anymore within the scope of the principle of state and church separation? Had it been matters of worship, then the government cannot intervene. But when one INC member causes injury to another INC member, isn’t that a matter that should be brought to the state?
My suggestion (assuming you’re an INC member) is let the DOJ do its job first. But be as watchful to the case as you are now. Wait for its findings and recommendation. If you don’t agree, appeal. If you still don’t agree, then I guess protesting in the streets is understandable. At least, people will see that you have exhausted all means available to you to resolve this before rallying in the streets.
If people seem to be angry at the INC and you think it’s because they don’t understand the situation I say maybe you’re right. So I invite you to explain why should people side with the INC using your own understanding of the issue and when you do that, don’t direct us to various links. Just quote from them. If I find that you have a case, then I might support the INC.
Also, I suggest that when you start ‘teaching’ us, please explain to me how to reconcile Romans 13:1-7 with what the INC is doing now.
I hope this link is enough to understand why INC don’t want De Lima meddling with internal issue of INC.
http://www.tribune.net.ph/commentary/thank-you-inc
sigh
I just said this: “…using your own understanding of the issue and when you do that, don’t direct us to various links.”
But fine I will read this. I was hoping to read your understanding of the issue.
I’m not in the position to interpret what Romans 13:1-7 means, it’s not my niche. If you want to understand that or get a straight answer, you are free to visit one of INC Locales all over the Philippines and if you’re in abroad let me know so I can endorse you.
We all know that DOJ is the extension power of BS PNoy which is also obviously been written here in GRP from the day BS Aquino started his Presidency. So, how can INC Hierarchy expect fair justice here, if from the start this is just a pure harassment just to get INC nod to support Mar Presindential candidacy.
During the CJ Corona, Revilla, Enrile, Estarada’s cases all the evidences were fabricated and most of us witnessed this. She even disobeyed most the law even the Supreme Court decision that allowed PGMA to go and seek medical treatment abroad and then you want INC to believe De Lima investigation?
They can lie as big as they want or as far as they want and this will damage the INC; members here are so dedicated serving God and most of us are peaceful people. If you’re not member, you cannot understand what I’m talking about.
Part of our doctrine that if one kapatid has complain to one kapatid, it will be solved by the higher minister since we have a doctrine which is/will the laws of INC based on Bible.
Ok Chris. I read this as you want me to.
1. Larry Faraon (the author of the article in the link) said that the INC leaders fear that their case would suffer the same injustice the three senators experienced in the hands of Sec. De Lima as chief of the DOJ. That caused its members to go to the streets and protest. My question is, if the INC doubts the credibility of De Lima, what legal means has it done as a counter? Have they gone to any other agency? What about the courts? We’re focusing on one agency regarding this issue maybe we’re forgetting that there other means and agencies available if INC does not trust De Lima.
2. Faraon also thinks that Ombudsman Carpio-Morales will join in pressing the INC. He said “Next phase would be in the vicinity of Ombudsman Conchita Carpio Morales who would claim ‘prima facie’ evidence based on De Lima’s summary and start ordering arrests and detention! Exactly, what they did to the three senators. And the story goes.” – I have a problem with this. I stand corrected but under Section 15 of RA 6770, the Ombudsman’s scope involves only “public officer or employee, office or agency.” I don’t like saying that an article is flawed but I think this part requires some review by the author.
3) “It and its members rightly took their fears into the streets.”
Assuming that their fear is well-founded, my next question is how am I going to reconcile this with Romans 13:1-7. The verse reads:
“Let every person be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God. Therefore, whoever opposes authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will bring judgment against themselves. For those rules are an object of fear, not to the good deed, but to the bad. Do you want to be free of fear of the authority? Keep doing good, and you will have praise from it; for it is God’s minister to you for your good. But if you are doing what is bad, be in fear, for it is not without purpose that it bears the sword. It is God’s minister, an avenger to express wrath against the one practicing what is bad.
There is therefore compelling reason for you to be in subjection, not only on account of that wrath but also on account of your conscience. That is why you are also paying taxes; for they are God’s public servants constantly serving this very purpose. Render to all their dues: to the one who calls for the tax, the tax; to the who calls for the tribute, the tribute; to the one who calls for fear, such fear; to the one who calls for honor, such honor.”
The Catholic priest Faraon described the INC’s act of taking it on the street “rightly” and I assume you agree and support it. However, I cannot reconcile that with the cited biblical verse. I’m sure your educated leaders have a reason for this and that is what I want to know. And since you support them, I also assume that you are well-informed of this and can enlighten us if you think we’re missing the point.
So what else do you have?
I’m sorry. My comment came late. It’s suppose to come after when you showed the link.
@Chris
“this is just a pure harassment just to get INC nod to support Mar Presindential candidacy”
****
That is a very funny way of getting a nod from somebody. This can be if INC’s own methodology is more inclined towards bullying. Otherwise, this is just another smokescreen that INC is creating.
“Part of our doctrine that if one kapatid has complain to one kapatid, it will be solved by the higher minister since we have a doctrine which is/will the laws of INC based on Bible.”
****
What happens if the hierarchy is broken down, as what Samson is saying about INC?
****
Samson was just interviewed and said that all what INC is doing now are just desperate moves, what do you say to that?
Chris:
My previous question stands and I would like to add my comments below:
1) “I’m not in the position to interpret what Romans 13:1-7 means, it’s not my niche.” – I’m not really asking you to interpret this. I’m only asking you to help me reconcile this with what some INC members are doing at Shaw Blvd. now.
2) “If you want to understand that or get a straight answer, you are free to visit one of INC Locales all over the Philippines and if you’re in abroad let me know so I can endorse you.” – I think you’re in the best position to do that now. You are nearest to your leaders and you may just send my questions to them and relay the answer to me.
3) “Part of our doctrine that if one kapatid has complain to one kapatid, it will be solved by the higher minister since we have a doctrine which is/will the laws of INC based on Bible.” – what happens if the higher ministers who’s suppose to solve are the subjects of the complaint? Where can a member go? Isn’t that yet time for the government to step in?
I rest my case, I already explained it to you, regarding our doctrine this is not the proper place…if you want to ask questions….you can visit INCmedia.org
@Chris
Timing of INC’s reaction is an immediate suspect. Up to the time that INC’s Isias Samson filed a complaint at DOJ, INC has not been known to say anything about selective justice and incompetence in the PNoy administration. We have worn out our keyboards writing about these things, but where was INC during all those times?
And now that INC is in some dire straits, all of a sudden, INC finds there is selective justice all around — ay naku, anong nangyari, ganito pala sa Pinas! C’mon, Cris, don’t take us for fools. INC is using the very thing we have been writing for their own selfish cover-up.
Samson has filed a complaint of illegal detention, threats, coercion, harassment against the 12-member Sanggunian. These are very serious, and no wonder INC is scared. Scared, they are not thinking. If INC truly believes there is selective justice and incompetence, as we do, then let the complaint proceed in its normal course so that they themselves get empirical evidence, solid proofs, that there is selective justice and incompetence. But, no, INC does not want a commonsensical approach. Because they are scared, they want to stoke fear all around.
We have been critical of the PNoy administration because we have been in the service of truth. Now, INC wants to be critical of the same administration to suppress truth. Now, tell me, Cris, how these two can be compatible.
Really, you know the truth and we do not? You don’t know what’s happening inside our church all what you’ve said is just pigment of your imagination.
Ganito kasimple lang yan, kapag ang magulang ba dinisiplina ang anak dahil sa ayaw magsabi ng totoo at binawalan na munang magsalita at lumabas lumabas para mag-isip isip pero ang ginawa nagsumbong at naisip niya na yung pagbabawal na lumabas sa kanya eh puede niyang ikaso sa magulang. Nasaan naman ang katinuan ng pag-iisip mo tinutuwid ka lang ng magulang mo pero sila pa sinuwag mo…ang nilapitan mo pang tao yung taong hindi mapapagkatiwalaan at mahilig mangharrass…
Hindi nakikialam ang INC sa pagdating sa katiwalian ng gobyerno dahil nagpapasakop ang INC sa gobyerno dahil nasa Biblia yan, ang INC nakatuon sa matahimik na pamumuhay, sumasamba, nagtatrabaho, natatatrapik sa kalsa tulad niyo at may pamilya din…ganyan lang kasimple buhay ng INC..kapag may mga hindi pagkakaunawan sa loob nito bago kami magpunta sa baranggay sa loob muna ng INC inaayos na ito upang walang sirain kahit hindi magkapatid sa laman at dugo ang turingan namin at pagmamasalakit namin sa isa’t isa higit pa sa tunay na magkakapatid. Yan ang hindi namin naintindihan kay Samson…laking Iglesia mula sa mga magulang at kanununuan niyan…Iglesia nagpaaral sa mga anak niya, nagpakain sa kanya, nagbigay ng bahay, sasakyan, sumuporta sa gastusin niyan pagnag-aabroad. Aral yan sa Iglesia….ngayon ano siya, ang tanging takbuhan niya DOJ? sino ang desperado dito? Kinupkup siya ng INC sa mahabang panahon halos buong buhay niya ngayon ito lang ang igaganti niya? Tapos siya pa ang tama sa paningin niyo? Hindi takot ang INC sa ganitong laban 101 na kami, for your information, sa Saudi Arabia ako nagwowork lahat kaming magkakapatid galit sa ginawa niya. Lahat kami, kasi alam namin kung paano at gaano kalahaga ang maayos na samahan sa INC ganoon namin nirerespeto ang mga Ministro…maliban sa sarili niya at asawa at anak niya..wala na siyang kakampi maliban sa mga taong naniniwala sa kasinungalingan niya…alam niya na sumpa ang dadating sa kanya at uusigin siya ng kanyang konsensya sa ginawa niyang paglabag. Mamatay na lang siya tulad ng mga ministrong natiwalag na gumawa ng paglabag na gustong makabalik sa INC pero sarado na ang pintuan para sa kanila or pahihirapan silang makabalik mahabang proseso worst baka hindi na nila hanggang sa malagutan sila ng hininga.
GRP has always bashed INC before this demonstration. Reasons why the lack of support to INC is warranted:
1. The dispute started from what was originally an internal power struggle that does not concern the nation-at-large.
2. The protest clearly isn’t about separation of Church and State so the reasons why the INC is protesting is not on point with the stated reasons.
3. The side issues the INC raised (justice for SAF 44, Yolanda, DAP, etc.) only serve to avoid the issue of the Sanggunian’s crime [if any… we still presume them innocent] or at best only serves as a secondary objective or to build sympathy.
4. This demonstration is clearly political rather than religious.
5. INC has not been shown unfair treatment, rather they have been given preferential treatment and unusual tolerance by the government given how disruptive the demonstration has become.
6. Ideolgically, GRP hates the INC because of the practice of bloc voting which means that the majority of the church membership is not allowed critical thinking and wise voting. It is anti-democratic, anti-intellectual and just plain corrupt.
7. GRP has been very consistent in its anti-INC stand. Most of its contributors probably believe the Filipino will be better off without them. This group shows all the worst of Filipino culture: anti-intellectual; clannish; self-important; law-breaking; rule-flouting; thuggish and mob-like behavior of its members.
8. The protest is clearly not intended to benefit the Filipino. It is intended to benefit the INC (or the leaders currently under investigation). Time and time again, we have seen the INC take stands or act only when the group stands to benefit. This protest is no different.
Hi Vincent,
“Samson was just interviewed and said that all what INC is doing now are just desperate moves, what do you say to that?”
As far as my understanding, the Sanggunian is doing this not for themselves but to fight the right of separation of church and state. To give you the whole details of it, tatagalugin ko na lang because I’m not that fluent enough to write in English.
Simple lang naman yung paliwanag sa pagrereklamo ni Samson diyan..Sa isang pamilya kapag nagkakamali ka tinutuwid ka di ba, sa mga anak dinidisiplina ka kapag may nagawa kang mali or labag sa pinag-uutos, laking iglesia si Samson at alam niya ang mga sinumpaan niya tulad ng pagpapasakot sa pamamahala, nakitaan siya ng paglabag at ng malaman na niya na iimbestigahan na siya, tumakas siya at nagsumbong kay De Lima… Karapatan ng INC na imbestigahan siya dahil nagkicreate siya ng pagkakawatak watak…masama bang imbestigahan siya ng INC na isa mga sinumpaan niya yon ng naging Ministro siya. Madali magparatang at alam naman natin kahit anong ipaliwanag ng INC kapag hindi idinaan sa Media at hindi namin kaanib mabilis pa sa alas 4, pagpipiyestahan at tutuyain ito ng mga tao..hindi ba ito ang ang nangyayari ngayon, imbes na naresolba sa loob muna ng INC since ang INC naman ang tumaguyod sa kanya at sa kanyang pamilya mula sa pag-aaral ng kanyang mga anak, tirahan, pagkain, at pag-aabroad niya. Liban dito, sumusunod naman ang INC sa batas, nakikipagkaisa nga kami sa botohan, at humaharap sa demandahan pero hindi tiwala ang INC kay De Lima dahil sa kabila na naunang sinabi ng NBI na case closed niya pinabuksan pa rin niya ang kaso at siya pa mismo ang kumimbinsi kay Samson na magsampa ng kaso laban sa Sanggunian. Si De Lima mismo, now tell me, strange di ba? parang may hidden agenda or motive di ba? and yet they put Samson in a witness protection kagad. Kahit mga pamilya ni Samson mula sa mga lolo at lola at mga kamag-anakan niya halos isumpa siya sa ginawa niya alam na alam niya patakaran at samahan ng INC lalo pa’t ministro siya, binastos niya lang at binawela ang INC, nakapawalang utang na loob niyang tao kaya ganoon na lang ang pag-aalsa ng INC lalo pa nainvolve ang DOJ na alam natin na simula’t simula pa si De Lima rin ang gumawa ng kuwento upang mapatalsik yung NBI na kapatid na umano kumidnap ng isang Illegal Stayed Japanese Citizen para lang mapaalis sa puwesto at mailagay yung bata ni De Lima…
Now on your second question;
What happens if the hierarchy is broken down, as what Samson is saying about INC?
Nothing will happen INC will stay as stable as it is, 101 years na ang INC and the members of it still growing now only in the Philippines but the around the world. The point is these hierarchy are INC’s bretheren, we will support them no matter unless these bretheren will be tiwalag that’s the time INC will not take care of them like Samson. If you any question, please take time to watch Net 25 or Eagle News….
Regards.
@Chris – even in matters of the Family one can be sued if they broke the law. Your metaphor is sloppy as Samson is not a child and therefore has rights.
Just for a second, can you consider that the case is not against INC and its faith but against some of its people? People are not infallible and it looks like there are administrative rules in the Ministry (rules not doctrines) that conflict with the law. Those rules are not from God but from men and are implemented by men.
@Chris – even in matters of the Family one can be sued if they broke the law. Your metaphor is sloppy as Samson is not a child and therefore has rights.
Just for a second, can you consider that the case is not against INC and its faith but against some of its people? People are not infallible and it looks like there are administrative rules in the Ministry (rules not doctrines) created by men that conflict with the law. The Sanggunian implemented those rules and they, as a result, may have broken the law. So now they have to face charges. There’s not even a verdict yet just a filing of the case. Wala pang makukulong.
As to your point regarding Samson’s lacking sense of debt of honor o utang na loob, my question to you is why shd he have one? He worked for the Church and he was compensated for his abilities. Everything that was provided to him was payment for his work no different than any other working person. He does not owe anyone anything.
Ralph, kahit anong paliwanag ko sayo, ipipilit mo pa rin gusto mo and this discussion will not end. I rest my case.
Regards.
Good day Chris,
1) “Samson was just interviewed and said that all what INC is doing now are just desperate moves, what do you say to that?” – We’re you quoting me? I don’t remember asking this. But to answer what do I say to that – I wouldn’t want to say it is a desperate move at all. I just think most INC members have, with all due respect, a wrong interpretation of the church and state principle.
2) “What happens if the hierarchy is broken down, as what Samson is saying about INC?”
This is actually a question from Add, not mine. Nonetheless, I had a similar question.
What I want to know is what if your leaders, those who are suppose to look over the flock, are the subjects of the complaint, to whom your people can go to? Maybe that is the reason why Mr. Samson went straight to the DOJ instead of dealing this internally with the INC hierarchy, don’t you think? Assuming he did tried to resolve this internally, do you think he would expect a favorable outcome if the hearers of his case are the very same set of people he is complaining about?
3) On the main body of your comment
Sang-ayon ako sa sinabi mong tungkulin ng INC na usisain si G. Samson dahil naglikha siya ng pagkakawatak-watak sa samahan. Ito ay ginagawa ng ibang samahan sa ibang pananampalataya at ito din naman ay naaayon din sa banal na kasulatan dahil sa pangangailangan na mapanaliti ang kaayusan at at kapayapaan sa samahan. Hindi ko hinihinging ‘wag gampanan ng mga pinuno ninyo ang gawaing ito.
Ngunit may isang ginagawa ang samahang INC sa ngayon na sa tingin ko ay salungat sa tinuturo ng kasulatan na sila din mismo ang nagtuturo. Ikaw na rin ang nagsabi na wala kayong tiwala sa pamamahala ni Kal. De Lima. Sa pagsasabi nito, maituturing na nahusgahan n’yo na ang ginang. Sa pagkakaalam ko, ang mga samahang Christiano ay nagtataguyod ng pag-ibig higit sa ano pa man sa kahit ano pa man ang ginagawa nila. Kung kaya’t hindi ko maikasundo ang ginagawa ng ibang kasapi ng INC sa mga sumusunod:(Paumanhin, ang hawak kong Bibliya ay sa salitang English)
1) Romans 12:10 – “In brotherly love have tender affection for one another. In showing honor to one another, take the lead.”
2) 1 Peter 2:17 – “Honor men of all sorts…”
Isa pang inaasahan ko sa samahang Christiano kagaya ng INC ay ang pagtanggi sa sarili nitong kapakanan (Philippians 2:3-4 Do nothing out of contentiousness or out of egotism, but with humility consider others superior to you, as you look out not only for your own interests, but also for the interests of others” – Emphasis on the “interests of others”). Totoong dapat pagsikapan ng INC na hindi masira ang kanilang samahan sa abot ng kanilang makakaya ngunit sa tingin ko hindi sa punto na makakaabala sa kapwa at maging dahilan pa para magkasala ang mga naabala (Philippians 1:10 – …that you make sure of the most important things, so that you may be flawless and not stumbling others…). Ito naman siguro ay hindi nangangahulugang higit pinahahalagahan ang kapakanan ng tao kaysa sa samahan na si Cristo mismo ang nagtatag, hindi ba?
Ang maimumungkahi ko na lang ay ito:
1) Bakit hindi hayaan ng mga pinuno nyo na gampanan ng Kagawaran ng Katarungan ang kanilang tungkulin ng pagsisiyasat at para masigurong mas makakalapit kayo sa katotohanan, sabayan ng inyong mga pinuno ang pagsisiyasat ng sa ganoon may higit sa isang mata ang nagsasaliksik? (Parallel investigation)
2) Kung ‘di kayo tiwala sa pamumuno ni Kal. De Lima, bakit hindi nyo hingiin sa Kataas-taasang Hukuman (Supreme Court) na bawiin nito ang kanyang lisensya bilang abugado?
Panghuli, nauuwanaan ko na nais ninyo lamang na mapanatili ang dangal ng INC, sa ngalan na rin siguro ni Cristo sa palagay ko. Tingin ninyo ay wala kayong ibang magagawa kundi gamitin ang “right to assembly”. Ngunit dapat ninyo din maunawaan na ang puno’t dulo ng kaliwa’t kanang pagbatikos sa inyo ay ang abalang idinulot ng paggamit ng karapatan na ito. Ang ibang mga puna, nabanggit at naalala na lang ‘yun kasi napansin kayo bigla. Ang magagawa ninyo ay timbangin ang bagay-bagay. May sapat na dahilan ba para mag-aklas? At kung meron, paano ito gagawin ng hindi nakakaabala bilang paggalang na rin sa iba na walang kinalaman sa pinaglalaban ninyo.
Ang binabanggit ng iba na kesyo meron lang kayo tinatago o iniiwasan, sa aking papanaw e wala ako sa tamang lugar para sabihin ito. Ngunit sa patuloy na pagtanggi ng mga pinuno ng INC na makialam ang DOJ, lumalaki lang lalo ang duda. Kung may pagaalinlangan kayo sa gagawin ng DOJ, hayaan mong banggitin ko ulit ang ang ilang bahagi ng isinulat ko kahapon hango sa Romans 13:1-7:
“Do you want to be free of fear of the authority? Keep doing good, and you will have praise from it; for it is God’s minister to you for your good. But if you are doing what is bad, be in fear, for it is not without purpose that it bears the sword. It is God’s minister, an avenger to express wrath against the one practicing what is bad.”
Why is unity so important to your group? Is it doctrinal? Is it in your version of the Bible? CAn you enlighten us on this?
I’m thinking of starting a similar tax free pyramid scheme….. any takers? I mean disciples sorry…..
Go for it, Vegemite. You’ll have Pinoys queuing up for your new scam/religion. Just pay attention to the two critical ingredients:
1) Absolution from any responsibility for their own failures.
2) The prospect – however small and unrealistic – of making a shitload of money for doing nothing.
The CC provides this via the confession booth and a Mary-mother-of-Santa deity, who will hand out goodies to the faithful who pray a lot. That’s a hard act to follow.
Gee, this is what I’ll say: the government grants religious freedom – you can believe whatever you want. HOWEVER, the freedom isn’t absolute – one cannot establish a religious organization that takes human sacrifices, it is simply an affront to human rights, which the state will value more than religious freedom.
INC should have simply went through legal process to show that that illegal detention, a human rights violation, never happen. Rallying and crying “Separation of Church and State” without even understanding what the constitution says makes them a bunch mindless mob.
Unless, the illegal detention really . . .
What is wrong is 1) INC through its members is trying to manipulate the govt to drop the charges against their elderly council (i.e. the Sanggunian) and 2) the leaders of INC trick their members into thinking that their faith is under attack. It isn’t. Only the men who decided to illegally detain Samson are under attack. I don’t think the members realize they are on the streets fighting for a few men’s freedom who may have broken the law. These men are not who they worship and certainly not what they wish to protect.
To add, if INC is truly a religious organization and not a brotherhood of men then their members shd be the first to push for justice and ask their Sanggunian to face the charges against them. It seems the members of the Sanggunian think they themselves are God or Christ himself. Why else would they equate themselves as the equivalent of the Church?
@Chris – that 2nd paragraph is for you and the members of your Church. Think about it.
Exactly, ralph. Another thing I also wanted to say.
ADD has a way of ‘telling it the way it is’ that is frank, clever and honest. May we see more of this kind in GRP. I wonder whether he might deal in the INC’s disgusting ruse of masking their ‘religion’s’ dilemma and dirty linen by spreading misery over millions of innocent and unsuspecting commuters. I cannot see how playing the ‘victim-card’..citing the DOJ’s interest in a possible crime of kidnapping(s).. and their subsequent show of force will result in anything constructive.. leastwise to them. To the contrary, these ploys simply show-case their callous self-importance, vanity and emptiness. Are they really a religion? What religion would willfully exact further suffering to an already harried people?
I honk at protestors to show my support, and also tell them to get the fuck out of my way.
This is like the kettle calling the teapot black. They clamor for freedom and yet they vote en bloc? They clamor for separation of state and church yet they have no qualms in commanding their members who to vote for during elections? Hypocrites all of you. Tanungin mo lahat yan and i’m sure 99% ang isasagot: “Ewan ko kung bakit kami nandito, basta pinapunta lang kami ng minister namin dito, sabi me party daw at ‘bigayan’.” Mga hunghang. Magsiuwi na kayo’t manahimik sa mga bahay nyo. Nakakapermisyo na kayo. Kung ayaw nyo na pakialaman kayo, huwag kayo magpapansin. To compare what you’re doing to EDSA 1 and 2 is insulting to say the least. Pwe!
De Lima plans to run for the Senate. I get that. De Lima as the Secretary of Justice is the ultimate purveyor of justice in the Executive Branch’s ‘ Department of Justice ‘Food Chain’. As such she is boss of the Municipal and City Fiscals, as well as the Prosecutors at all levels, and the NBI. She, therefore, has access to the cases that these Government Lawyers handle at any one time. I think we can all get that. Now, the case:..A number of lower echelon Ministers of the INC are arbitrarily detained by its elders; one of them was nabbed somewhere in Bicol..was unheard from for a while.. and was produced later on in Cavite. The others probably have their own horror stories to tell.. understandably. They filed complaints with the Police and the NBI but for some reason, no prosecutor is assigned for a week. (So far, these are what can be gleaned from the newspapers.) Given the snail’s pace of Philippine justice, is Secretary De Lima really off-limits from such cases?
The ‘Iglesia Ni Cristo’ is a powerful organization. We all know that. We all know, as well, how such power has been wielded for several decades now and how government officials, (Presidents and Senators included), cower at the prospects of displeasing this organization. (A case in point…Binay’s and Poe’s comments). INC Ministers, on the other hand are among the lowest in the INC food chain. Their chances of being heard in a case such as theirs is ‘little-to-none’. Given the awkward, (deferential) attitude of the Government vis a vis the INC, these Ministers are as cats in a dog pound. They could still be, by the way.
Thus far, De Lima has not strayed from the reservation. She, perhaps short-circuited the system, but is still within her rights in doing so. She has not broken any law, in the actions she has taken to try and ‘level the playing field’, (I hesitate to use that cliche). This is not totally about the immoral and anomalous power that the INC has over the Philippine Government, (imagine that). It is still about those Ministers who were abducted and detained, summarily and illegally.. and are just seeking justice.
At first, I might have understood your redress and grievance for the inconvenience that was caused.For that I apologize in behalf of my brothers in faith. But when you started attacking our faith in Christ you turned me off. Seriously, you don’t even know an inch of our faith in Christ. Your so stupid to belong in a religion with a violent history. Just because yours was older nor the majority means you are already right. INCs are not fanatics like yourself. We know and studied our belief before we get baptized while you was just born on it. Respect begets respect, you may attack our individual faults and actions but please stop shoving your belief on us.
Hey legal management student. well 1st of all, this is what i can say about your religion.
1. manalo as you say is a prophet.
-stated in the bible. john de baptist was the last prophet. so was manalo a time traveler from the old testament? i dont think so
2. The Church of Christ was built in Rome, not in the Philippines 1914. did the church suddenly teleported or something?
3. Manalo is an Angel – WTF?! i didnt recall anyone from the past who can fly
4. One is false all is false. your religion is a joke. you have been fooled. Manalo’s interpretation of the bible is mostly wrong and his claims are in contrary of what is the bible.
5. . f()ck you, you aint getting any respect.
“in the bible” mistyped that one. But i guess you get the point
Legal Mgt student,
Didnt the Spaniards shove their belief on all of you in the Philippines? They were quite successfull.
hey robort hageoimva. ( your last name sounds like a sausage) anyway. I believe from your country some dickhead also shoved their belief in your ass.. haha.. happens everywhere and not only in the philippines. btw legal mgt student is just butthurt coz everyone hates them.
Seriously? That’s the best intellectual conversation you can throw? Oh my..such a shame that a young boy like me is more mature and intellectual than these adults. Pity. Thank you for the response though but I’d rather review for my exams tomorrow than indulge with your non-sense.
Robert Haigton,
The Spaniards certainly did shove the “aristocratic mindset: into all of us Filipinos, and the main ingredient in our stupid and useless “Pinoy Pride.” This individualized “Pinoy Pride” is the reason why we Filipinos can’t get our “shits” together. Each of us think we’re better than the other. I hate to sound like I’m bashing my own kind, but it’s the truth; and to cushion my bluntness, I’m including myself among them as being ‘self-serving’ and ‘arrogant.’
Aeta
Aeta,
You are already one step ahead of your fellow country men an women. You acknowledge it, you are aware of it. That is step 1 on the path of change (for the better).
No offense, but i think is one of the worst article i ever read. First why u only blame the INC about the traffic in EDSA, traffic is already a major problem of EDSA until now. Second u don’t really underastand the issue behind that rally. The INC is one of the organize and peaceful religion organization and they are more than 100 years old in the Philippines. I think this is only the first time they held a rally to protect their religion against the government. Would u think the government will listen to them if they held a rally in their Arena in Bulacan. I believe they don’t want to be the cause of major traffic in EDSA, but do they have any other options that this government will listen to them. Third, u cant compare INC to ISIS, because Christ is a son of God and Isis leader is a son of a devil. INC dont kill people but Isis does. If u believe that Christ is also a God, then why would He let himself killed by humans in a cross. Do you really understand the meaning of the word God and what his real nature? Maybe u should visit one their worship service to find out.
A bit brainwashed by the INC sect, are we?
The INC has been causing chaos with their idiotic religious gatherings for years. All just to show off.
If I had anything to say this sect would be declared ILLEGAL and the top brass sent to jail.
To anyone who have chanced upon this article, a pleasant day.
First off, I understand that GRP is more a site for weighty discussion than an MMO chat box where insults are casually tossed around. Religion, like it or not, can be an incendiary topic so please be doubly civil in threads like this. Anyways…
I made this late post with the benefit of several years’ hindsight, having seen what the current administration and opposition were doing the whole time.
Some might prefer INC and De Lima to work out some sort of legal proceedings, but now, over three years later I think I can hardly expect LP stalwarts to honor their word in court.
The damage the LP has done over the years need not be detailed entirely. One only has to remember the MRT mess. That kinda makes a few days’ protest (which is a call out on the LP) pretty tame in comparison, so some of the comments here strike me as shortsighted.
And there’s also a “penis” argument somewhere in this thread. That works fine in a place like the Soviet Union, where at least most religions are not allowed anything public. In a free country, however, you must absolutely be chill with such “voyeurism.”
Thank you for your time on my post.