Is Europe now suffering from years of misguided (albeit, possibly in hindsight) immigration policy? It seems the notion is catching fire across the Continent. The outrage being exhibited by crowds that have gathered across European cities to express solidarity with the 12 people killed in a brutal Islamist attack on the office of French satire magazine Charlie Hebdo in Paris highlights the issue of free speech. But there are rumblings underneath. Even before this atrocity, right-wing parties espousing reduced tolerance for immigrants and highlighting the emerging apparent deep incompatibility between Muslim culture and the liberal secular societies of Western Europe have been gaining traction — and parliament seats.
People across Europe massing in solidarity against a growing Islamic threat to freedom of speech
(Photo posted by @ABC on Twitter)
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‘In the middle of the 20th century, there were virtually no Muslims in Western Europe,” Weekly Standard senior editor Christ Caldwell pointed out in his 2009 book on Islamic immigration, “Reflections on the Revolution in Europe.” “At the turn of the 21st, there were between 15 and 17 million Muslims in Western Europe, including 5 million in France, 4 million in Germany and 2 million in Britain.”
France in particular seems to be the country most fed up with this state of affairs…
“Only 19% of Europeans think immigration has been good for their countries,” Caldwell points out. “73% of French people think their country has too many immigrants … Even before September 11” the French were “three times as likely to complain of ‘too many Arabs’ in the country than of too many of anyone else.”
And he quoted Princeton Islamic scholar Bernard Lewis, who in 2004 declared that Europe, by the end of the 21st century, “will be part of the Arabic west, of the Maghreb.”
The trend seems to be consistent with the objectives of radical Islamic movements like the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) which aims to re-establish a pan-Arabic caliphate in the mold last seen during their golden ages centuries ago. As such, whilst secular Western societies have embraced “multiculturalism” and naively expected all migrants to assimilate into the open societies they offered, it seems possible that the time has come to re-evaluate that thinking. Indeed, Islamic radicals residing in Western societies have leaned upon the guarantee of freedom of expression their adopted socities served to them and expressed their gratitude by spreading their virulent shut-the-fuck-up (STFU) philosophy, often (as is evident now) through violence.
The idea that Islamic radicals represent a small isolated sector of the larger community of Muslims worldwide is also wearing thin. Questions have been raised as to why moderate Muslim have consistently failed to more strongly denounce the activities of radicalised elements within their communities and police themselves more thoroughly.
Today’s deadly attack on Charlie Hebdo did not stop moderate French politicians from trying to downplay the atrocity as an “isolated” case. More likely, French leaders are now fearing an increase in support for the country’s rightist party Front National (FN). Its leader, Marine Le Pen has used strong words to condemn the attack and rally support for clearer resolve in French society…
“Time’s up for denial and hypocrisy,” Le Pen, who has railed against immigration, said in a video posted on her party’s website. “The absolute rejection of Islamic fundamentalism must be proclaimed loudly and clearly.”
Soumission (Submission), a book by top French provocateur Michel Houellebecq has also recently been published in an apparent timing coup. The book paints a hypothetical picture of France being taken over by Islamic politicians and policies favourable to Muslims being implemented including mandating the stoppage of education for girls after Year 11. The book and Houellebecq himself are, not surprisingly, making waves. The BBC asks, “[Is] Houellebecq simply doing the job of an artist: holding a mirror to the world, exaggerating perhaps but honestly telling the deeper truths?”
Interesting enough, the BBC further observes, “in Soumission, it is in order to keep Le Pen out [of power] that the mainstream parties rally behind the charismatic Mohammed Ben Abbes,” perhaps highlighting how political correctness and the denial of reality it creates in society may have contributed greatly to the crisis Western secular societies face today as they open their eyes to the elephant that has long taken up space in their proverbial room.
benign0 is the Webmaster of GetRealPhilippines.com.
Same situation as Brazil during the final years of its Imperial era. Instead of Muslims, they had Positivist Republicans who, ironically, wanted an autocracy – considering that Brazil during Pedro II’s era is considered a democracy.
for certain, you wont hear from other muslim communities in France condemning the attack
If one is a realist, one would definitely reach the conclusion that Western liberal secularism is incompatible with Islamic conservatism and radicalism. I’m all for immigration, but immigrants have to be willing to thoroughly assimilate to the country they are immigrating to, which Muslims are notoriously stubborn in doing.
Muslims are naturally conservative which makes them incompatible with the left, who support issues like gay marriage, which Muslims find abhorrent. However, the left are the ones more likely to support further integration of Muslim immigrants. The right on the other hand, although also conservative, would not accept them and by all intents and purposes, are opposed to further Muslim integration.
“…perhaps highlighting how political correctness and the denial of reality it creates in society may have contributed greatly to the crisis Western secular societies face today as they open their eyes to the elephant that has long taken up space in their proverbial room.”
Agree completely. And this can be applied to the Philippine situation as well. So many Filipinos are of such myopic disposition, that they are unwilling to accept that the source of their problems lie deeply ingrained within their culture itself. They are unwilling to accept that their very way of life and their very habits contribute greatly to the economic, political and social morass they’re in. Heck, one can go as far in saying they’re also in a sort of spiritual morass, that it wouldn’t be a surprise to hear God himself say that no matter how religiously devout you profess to be, if your societies are rife with crime, poverty, corruption and all sorts of sordidness and depravity, yours is still spiritually bankrupt.
So, since you already summarized and theorize what situation the Filipinos and why they are stuck in it, what do you propose to do to turn things around? 🙂
It’s up to you guys to fix your problems. Do you have to be spoonfed at every opportunity to clean up after yourselves? No wonder the Philippines is called a nation of beggars.
Ah, so we can always criticize and say all the things we think are wrong and blame everybody then stop there. It is up to those who we criticize and blame to fix it. It’s not within our power or capability to give an idea or opinion what we think is a better option. We don’t participate nor share anything in an endeavor meant to confront and address the problem. We just chastise, blame, accuse, complaint and basically jeer from the sideline. We don’t inspire, encourage, help, aid, comfort, contribute or even try look for positives to share. Never.
While susceptible to question for perceive weakness in logic, I can accept that viewpoint. In the meantime.
A population that does not learn from positive reinforcement, but rather exploits it to their own selfish advantages needs to be treated as harshly as humanly possible. They will never learn to change short of being put a gun on their heads. That’s how broken Filipino masses have become.
A population that does not learn …..needs to be treated as harshly as humanly possible.
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Violence is the answer ha? I wonder if that kind of thinking was applied in the past.
You treat one harshly as humanly possible. Is the treatment to make the person learn or just a punishment. Harsh and Human. Isn’t that a contradiction in terms?
They will never learn to change short of being put a gun on their heads.
========
So, why waste time criticizing? Why still blame when all along you know people will never learn?
Doesn’t make sense. 🙁
Who said anything about violence? Harsh laws and repercussions now count as violence? Are you honestly satisfied with how things are being dealt with in the Philippines? I’ve seen your other comments. What do you really have to gain by acting contrarian? A smug satisfaction that you’re representing the moderate Flips and proving us wrong? Seems to be really pathetic ego patting on your part.
And by harsh I meant strict. I guess connotations of the former can trigger less than savory reactions than the latter. The Philippines needs discipline and order and it would only come from a people who regard said values with utmost importance.
@jmac: Nothing wrong with governments playing a strong role in integrating migrants — as long as it does not overcompensate and undertake that at the expense of the very national character that is behind the success and prosperity of the host society.
There are also lots of lessons to be learned that European governments need to reflect upon — like what is driving some of the trends that can be linked to the erosion of their social harmony and industrial prowess. Unfettered immigration perhaps could be the cause of the earlier and greedy outsourcing could be the cause of the latter.
Big business lobbies for immigration because of the cheap labour and bigger population (read: market) it brings. Indeed, even Silicon Valley have come under scrutiny after it was found that its business taipans are unable to prove that there actually is a shortage of tech talent in the US. Turns out tech companies in the US did not want to pay the premium local talent demands. So they turn to migrants as a great supply of cheap “tech talent” and lobby Congress with fraudulent claims of a “shortage” of workers.
This crooked approach of sourcing talent puts overall downward pressure on tech salaries, which then gives less incentive for American kids to take up tech courses, which then makes the US tech industry even more dependent on immigrant tech workers.
The social problems caused by immigrants in Europe are perhaps different. But the underlying principles at work are the same. There’s no such thing as a free lunch. If your shopping policy is always to go for the cheap option, things will catch up with that misguided policy eventually. You’ll get cancer or heart disease from eating cheap fast food and your house will become a money pit as the cheap materials you use deteriorate.
Who said anything about violence? – Chris
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You tell me because I’m just picking up on what you are saying. Here, read again what you wrote.
“…needs to be treated as harshly as humanly possible.”
“They will never learn to change short of being put a gun on their heads.”
Amen to that. 🙂
Harsh laws and repercussions now count as violence? – Chris
========
Really? You wrote “laws” in those statements I quoted you? Actually, I read back and forth your actual posts and there’s nothing there about law. No lying please. 🙂
Are you honestly satisfied with how things are being dealt with in the Philippines?
========
Good question. No, I’m not satisfied with how things are. But just because I’m not seeing what I want to see happen I’ll just arrogantly say these.
“Do you have to be spoonfed at every opportunity to clean up after yourselves?”
“No wonder the Philippines is called a nation of beggars.”
“That’s how broken Filipino masses have become.”
I’m not going to say that because it is not proper. I don’t know the answer to all the problems. And I don’t want to sound smart aleck and know it all by looking down and treating people with disrespect. Hurting and insulting words won’t help. It may promote your image, make you appear knowledgable but it is merely an empty rhetorics.
I’ve seen your other comments. What do you really have to gain by acting contrarian? – Chris
========
Really? Tell me what post you’ve seen and I’ll prove to you that you are accusing me of nonsense?
Me, I don’t remember you from Juan. You commented on my post meant for another poster. You call me contrarian but look at your inital response to me on this space.
“It’s up to you guys to fix your problems. Do you have to be spoonfed at every opportunity to clean up after yourselves? No wonder the Philippines is called a nation of beggars.”
I’d rather be contrarian (which is nonsense) than be rude. 🙁
A smug satisfaction that you’re representing the moderate Flips and proving us wrong? Seems to be really pathetic ego patting on your part.
========
Proving you wrong? You initiated the conversation by responding/intruding. You’re the one who tried to prove me wrong. Now you reduce the converstain to “me”? 🙁
Go back on the issue and grow up. Don’t act like a Dingdong-Mariane fan. You take things personal. 🙂
French people are scared of being labeled as “racist” if they talk about those problems 🙁 And the politicians won’t take the risk of loosing the possible 5 million votes if they tell the truth about muslims in France.
Very good article form you , benignO 🙂
Ben, French expat
You need to give yourselves a bit of credit and get over the past role your people played in world history. The trouble with Europeans is that you guys seem to continue to bear a massive collective guilt over the often brutal colonisation of the rest of the world that is part of your history. Perhaps this is the reason that your governments swung the pendulum too far and mounted a massive embrace of political correctness and, its spawn, “multiculturalism”.
I mean, being open to migrants does not mean having to pander to them. The onus to assimilate should be with migrants. The job of the host government and its people should be to apply the brilliant laws you crafted for the locals consistently to new legal residents as well. Nothing more nor less than that.
Lose the guilt. You can’t do anything about what your former kings and queens did in the past. But the free and democratic societies you built over the last several centuries made up for all that. At least the character of your civilisations CHANGED. Perhaps not a perfect change (as if it ever will be) — but at least the continuing journey is in the right direction.
Brilliant insight, Benign0. I could not have said what you just said any better.
Thanks! 🙂
“Pikon” of the highest order. That pretty much describes militant Muslims.
At the same time feeling “pa-victim” and “entitled”.
Sounds familiar, doesn’t it?
Pikon to the highest order doesn’t mean you should kill. The ‘pikon’ term does not exactly represent what these people are. They are simply murderers.
Read up their motivations for committing this horrible act. Get your facts straight before you try to prove otherwise, man.
Get my facts? Those people, to me, are murderers. For you, they are just ‘pikon to the highest order’. 🙁
being extremely offended does not give one the right to take the offender’s life.
but then again, i guess they were never taught that. it’s a sad world
lol don’t put words in my mouth. They’ve said it themselves. Sorry if your head is so far up your arse you only want to listen to yourself speak.
There goes the insult. 🙁
I pass.
No insults in that last post, but whatever helps you sleep at night.
Your just one clueless idiot. Go hide underneath a rock will you.
AM I THE ONLY ONE AROUND HERE
WHO WANTS A DIFFERENT PHILIPPINE CURRENCY
Well, technically if the Philippines were to have a different currency, it would still be the country’s currency so nothing would really change. 🙂
Additionally, tough luck with an ASEAN unified currency; there won’t be any.
You should see the news here in the ME. so goddamn vague. http://www.arabnews.com/featured/news/686356
Well, except for al-jazeera, all arab-based news outlets feature sanitized versions of the story.
Worse. They’re wording it up saying it’s the victims’ fault for “bringing about the wrath of their prophet.”
Not sure if this can be blamed on multiculuralism. Well, putting it in quotes as “multiculuralism” is certainly more like it. The problem is when one culture is intolerant of another, to the point that it seeks the death of members of the other culture. Tolerance isn’t the problem, it’s intolerance by some cultures. So I suppose the intolerant violent people are the ones who need their intolerance returned.
(from a Dutch perspective)
It is a very complicated matter to solve all this.
The fathers of the Muslim youngsters lost the respectof their own sons. In their home country, dad was still a somebody but in the west, dad is uneducated, without a job and unable to speak the dutch language and doing nothing makes this worse. That image is unacceptable for the son(s).
On the other hand, the son is unable to really adapt and adopt to the open and open-minded foreign (dutch) culture so he too loses every connection with and to his new country.
So the seeds to become extreme and fundamentalistic are already sown. The son will now go back to Syria and start fighting for/with IS. There he learns the trade of fire arms.
All the (dutch) government can do is to take away his – dutch – passport. The son has a dutch passport because although born out of – for instance – Morrocan parents, he was born on Dutch soil so he has a dutch passport.
I dont have any official figures but most Muslims originate from poor locations and poor parents from Morroco and Turkey. Nowadays we get to deal with a lot of asylum seekers coming from Syria trying to cross the mediterranean sea.
Ben also has a point that many people are afraid being labeled as a racist if they really start to speak their truth.
I also do agree with you Benign0 in your response to Ben.
My personal idea is: to close the Dutch borders (impossible because of EU policy and probably Human Rights policies) for all non-EU unless they have at least a certain level of education and/or a skills/qualifications (job expertise) that is not available in home country and of course the ability to speak Dutch at a certain level.
Alienation is one part of the equation, Bob — you can strike all the poses of the disaffected scion of poor immigrants all you want, but if you don’t have an attractive alternative way of life to look up to and hook up with (it’s very vague, I know), you won’t be going to magazine offices and shoot up all the cartoonists.
Let’s face it this part of the story, at least: after Iraq, Islamic fundamentalism (in the form of the Islamic State and its allies) is very attractive.
The three major monotheistic religions are actually all violent religions. Europe’s Christian Crusaders matched their infidels’ brutal war tactics tit-for-tat. Isreal has a long history of unilateral military actions in response to even the slightest perceived threats from its Arab neighbours.
The difference is that European civilisation has evolved into an individualistic culture comprising relatively small federated states. And even before that, it was a sub-continent populated by small warring feudal kingdoms. Indeed, among the biggest unifying forces in history, the Huns, the Mongol hordes and the Roman Empire failed to subdue and rule over northern Europe’s warlords over a sustained period.
The only time northern Europe marched en masse to a single command was when their collective ignorance put them under the papal spell of Rome. It was religion, not government, that mobilised Europe at such scales.
At some point, however, European culture diverged from the rest of the world to become more individualistic while all the rest remained collectivist and, as such, relatively more vulnerable to seduction by charismatic demagogues and dictators. We are all made to believe that individualistic open societies are the norm when in fact, Western individualism is actually the mutant culture in a world dominated by collectivist cultures. It just so happens Western civilisation came to dominate the planet economically and culturally and, as such, came to write most of the influential books we now read in school.
Benign you have to remember that the European Crusades were a response to the 700AD Islamic Crusade into Europe and they took much of Spain. The problem is the Muslim religion its self when you have 30% of the followers think the radicals are right you have a massive problem. Think about all the really bad leaders from the 20th century that had much less support but slaughtered millions.
Unless I forget something, wouldn’t the immediate instigator of the First Crusade be the occupation of Jerusalem by Muslims in the latter decades of the tenth century?
Jim, you mean the Reconquista?
All religions have seen violence. Even Buddhism has had violent radicals in Tibet, maybe even Vietnam. Japan’s warrior class drew heavy influence from Buddhism. Same with Shinto practitioners, I guess. My conclusion will always be the same. It’s not the religion that’s the problem, it’s the people. When they want to kill someone, they can think up any excuse for killing. For example, headhunter tribes in the islands or Africa.
I’m going to go out on a limb (but why not two?) and blame one man for all this —
George W. Bush.
One could argue that 9/11 would still have happened whoever was in charge at the time, and it could be argued that Afghanistan would’ve still been occupied in the aftermath. But the second war in Iraq produced a vacuum in power and rhetoric that only ISIS (or ISIL or Islamic State or whatever these motherfuckers call themselves) could possibly fill.
It is not Western European attitudes informing immigration policies that have failed; any society that tries to absorb sizable and vocal contingents of radicalized immigrants will have grave problems. What has failed to produce positive results for all concerned are the foreign policies Dubya and his (political and business) cronies pursued before and after 9/11. For would Muslims the world over have joined the cause of the Islamic State — would there have been an Islamic State at all — if it weren’t for Iraq?
I wouldn’t say that Islamic fundamentalism was dormant before the son of a Bush took over (remember Iran? recall Rushdie? how about the twin bombings at Nairobi and Dar es Salaam?), but at least the moderates had a voice — at least there were no major flashpoints that the majority of Muslims can potentially perceive as the doing of imperialist Americans out to do dastardly things. Yes, there’s (still) the turf war between Israel and Palestine, but the problem there was (and, with Rubin long gone, still is) too complex to be boiled down to just Muslims being oppressed.
Iraq? Iraq was another matter. Whatever the reality was on the ground, whatever the motivations of the Bush administration for storming in and owning the place for the next decade, the fact that it was occupied over and above the din of aghast world opinion, plus the bumbling way the occupation itself was handled — Iraq changed the game, Bush changed it, and all of us are paying extra! extra! extra!
http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2015/01/daily-chart-2
Good Article. I have said from the getgo, its not the abhorrent atrocities that these muslim retards commit, but the chickenshit silence of the so-called muslim moderate majority that tells the real story. There is a tacit (albeit denied) acceptance and approval of this philosophy amongst them. I’m afraid the only answer is to prohibit muslim immigration to the western world. Its a cancer that will be hard to stop now, they are having babies like jack-rabbits. The future will get worse before it gets better.
The future will get worse before it gets better — and you will be a part of that future, thanks to your bigoted exclusionary approach.
You’re quite welcome.
For of course, what better way to keep the trouble away than to keep them out regardless of sympathies, ensuring their undying hatred?
Hatred for hatred!
The Silent majority is irrelevant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry3NzkAOo3s
One thing I observe – the people who believe their “way of life” is threatened by others tend to be among the most violent.
I have stated again and again that “radical” or “fundamentalist” Islam is incompatible to “free thinking”. Democracy and Islam cannot mix.
Sharia Law, which is the Law of “radical” Islam: bans the education of women; give power to religious police to enforce Sharia Law; treats women as properties of their husbands; execute people by cutting their heads, etc…
It seems that those “Muslim” really cause headache or worst trouble wherever they maybe. Aren’t we have our own version of that herein our country. Dealing with them is not as easy as 123. Let’s take a look at Mindanao which has a majority number of Muslim and also known for terrorism. We keep on whining why our “incompetent” (as most of people claim) government solve such problem. Isn’t this incident in Europe proves that there is still no antidote to annihilate them or even to prevent them in doing such violet act. And because I am not a European I can’t speak on behalf of them. I can just comment that if there country can’t solve problems involving the Muslims and so are we.
I am seeing some lofty idea’s espoused about the history of Europe here in this thread and yet not a word about the role of technology over the 1,000+ years since the 1st crusade. Although it did not define the crusades it changed the way the crusades were waged. To this day the current technological advances(?) play an ever increasing role in the waging of the wars that are the battle for ideological dominance in Europe (used to justify control of resources) and ,in fact, much of the world today. It should go without saying that the major modern religions espouse violence in one way or another and that the constituents of these religions are free to interpret the texts of these religions…and do so…for the worse.
The thought that basically each of these theologies is a myth utilized to control the masses escapes some of these zealots that kill in the name of God….and for that reason alone, they are morons.
and to answer the question: You bet your your last frikkin peso they are sick of it. Expect major ‘blow-back’ in the form of violence towards Western Muslims and their places of congregation.
GRP = JE SUIS CHARLIE ?
I’m very concerned if we let immigrants into the Philippines that their radical western ideals might terrorise our harmony.
Don’t worry we have a counterpart of that in the Philippines. Aren’t you aware of crimes caused by Muslim terrorist in Mindanao. Haven’t you heard of Abu Sayyaf before???
LOL…. that’s rich….. hilarious bro….. I needed a good laugh
You should’ve dug a hole and bury yourself in it during the 19th century.
This article typifies the view that Filipino’s have of the world outside their borders.The Europeans I know are fuckin sick of immigrants coming to their countries, and it is not just recently they’ve sickened of it(10 yrs. at least).The avg. Western Euro citizen keeps his/her mouth shut, for to criticize the immigrant is to open oneself to be smeared as racist.The policies implemented by Western leaders had another objective in mind and it was not ‘multiculturalism’,nope.It was the replacement of Western workers with more than willing slaves from countries where jobs and food are scarce.
In the case of ISIS, I will only say that this article is not even close.ISIS is a Western creation to extract Assad from power and then evict Russia from its only Mediterranean port.I do not always expect that people in S.E.Asia are going to know what is going on in the West,or Middle-East, but this article is way off.
The feelings about immigrants are real all the way through (and hey, continental Europe has had far less cultural experience handling waves of immigrants than has the United States or the United Kingdom), and even the underlying logic is similar — in America, the ones who came there first complain about Mexicans taking all the low-wage jobs and bringing over the chaos of the drug cartels with them; in continental Europe, the same, save that instead of Mexicans, it’s Muslims with their jihadist sympathies.
The rest of your post? Rampart unfounded speculation in the service of extremism as bad and bigoted as the one those in thrall to ISIS and their allies adhere to.
@ Palla…, REALLY ? Open your eyes and call someone else a bigot.Obama draws a ‘LINE IN THE SAND'(attempt’s to remove Assad & consolidate control in the Middle-East) and gets it shoved up his ass by Russia’s backing Assad, and the next thing u know ISIS pops up and tries to topple Assad via a ‘civil war’,please…it is right in the CIA wheels house and is called ‘De-stabilization 101’…DUH! so, Get real? NO,more like get a clue moron.
@ Palla…, it is not my job to educate you…BUT just try to get a clue…here are a few links that may enlighten you…from credible sources and outside the Philippines….
Charlie Hebdo and Tsarnaev’s Trial: Cui bono?
18-year-old Charlie Hebdo suspect surrenders to police, claims to have alibi
‘Rampart unfounded speculation….’, is that right? According to who? YOU? Please, insult someone you can actually affect.As condescending as it may sound right now, I am doing you a favor.
People wrap themselves in their beliefs. And they do it in such a way that you can’t set them free. Not even the truth will set them free.
Europeans should get the nuclear weapons out and say you want a war you dirty goat fuckers then lets get on with it.
@ Yawn, the only thing that bothers me about this attack is the media & French police svcs. calling the attackers ‘Professionals’ and they conveniently leave their ID’s in the vehicle for all the world to see, and are not captured alive to utter a peep about what has happened.IDK about this one,I just do not know, but the ‘Boston bombings’ is a clear cut Bull-shit story and if it is not then why has it taken two yrs. to come to trial? This kid Tsarnaev had his best-friend(?) murdered while in FBI custody in Florida shortly after his arrest and the elder Trarnaev brother’s wife swears he was set up.Of course,everyone in jail is also not guilty too.This “Charlie Hebdo” attack? comes right after Hollande calls for easing of sanctions on Russia and is the second un-questioned tragedy.The first being the French Oil/Gas billionaires plane blowing up on a Moscow runway after he wanted to restart doing business with Russia.
Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see,AH? For things are not what they seem. ‘Cui Bono’ is always a good indicator of what is really happening.The NWO has been on the march for nearly 100 years and is closing in on world domination.
Hitler could not stop them and Putin is failing now as well.
This goes out to to the GRP readers and especially commenters who seem to think they are somehow ‘informed’ about what is happening outside the country. TRY not to be insulted and THINK !
Human Rights Watch: ‘All of the high-profile domestic terrorism plots of the last decade, with four exceptions, were actually FBI sting operations’
Illusion of Justice (Human Rights Abuses in US Terrorism Prosecutions)
Columbia University is a World-Class institution that is backing up what they say with cold hard facts.Illuminating the real stories behind what appear to be ‘terrorist acts’ and finding out that it is state sponsored thuggery can be a difficult pill to swallow.MAY I SUGGEST, a bit at a time then?
moderation now ? IDK…….
Well, I’m European and I must say that youi are totally wrong. I could write a long comment, much longer than your text, citing othger studies to refute your claims. You should also understand history of Muslim migration to Europe. But I will concebntrato on just one aspect. The terrorists dids not migrate to Europe. Their grandparents or great grandparents did. They were conservative Muslims but not islamists. They never considered any jihad. They wanted to escape from poverty in Mahgreb und ended up in poverty in the suburbs of Paris and other big cities. Young people grow up in these suburbs and learn that there is no future for them. An easy catch for recruiters of Al Quaeda or ISIS. And that’s the point. There are not radical islamists migrationg to Europe, there are Europeans radicalised in their home towns. Any change of immigration law would not change the situation.
@Stefan,
What you say is correct but needs more elaboration.
– Why did the parents grandparents or great grandparents migrate to Europe/France?
– Why was there never a future for todays youngsters?
– Why did they live in the banlieue’s
@ Stefan, Where in my comment did I say these guys that did the “Charlie’ bombings immigrated to Europe?or that the terrorists were immigrating to Europe? My point was that the borders opened to offer low-paying jobs to immigrants, OR did YOU miss that? I have to spell out everything? and YOU think I don’t understand?LOL !!!! U r funny ,you are,HA!
What does freedom of speech mean in France (and/or other European countries)?
It means I have to legal right to insult (Dutch: beledigen) an other person
It means I have the legal right to hurt another person’s feelings (Dutch: kwetsen)
It means I have the legal right to insult, ridicule, mock and bash any religion.
Without the need to be afraid of getting arrested and be put in jail.
In the Dutch language we have a proverb/saying that goes like this: “Schelden doet geen pijn” (“Swearing/Scolding/Cursing/Cussing does not hurt”).
What does freedom of speech mean in France (and/or other European countries)?
It means I have to legal right to insult (Dutch: beledigen) an other person
It means I have the legal right to hurt another person’s feelings (Dutch: kwetsen)
It means I have the legal right to insult, ridicule, mock and bash…..
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Don’t you guys have libel or defamation laws?
The statement above is weak for interpreting the ‘freedom of speech’ as a right to create havoc. A freedom does not grant the right to insult or hurt. No such thing.
freedom of speech means that you have the right to express your opinion publicly without governmental interference, subject to the laws against libel, incitement to chaos, violence or rebellion.
@jameboy,
In public and in private I can accusse you of being a liar. It will never end up going to jail or even have to pay you a settlement.
You can file a law suit or civil suit but it wont stand a chance in court. So you are wasting your money, and your time. And everybody knows that. Hence after you lost, everybody will laugh at you.
Robert, are you saying you have no law on libel, slander or defamation?
I asked that because I’m not familiar with your law and I cannot believe that the laws I mentioned, if ever, don’t exist in your country.
Accusing me of being a liar is child’s play. You don’t even need to have a freedom of speech on that. What I’m talking about is your statement about “insulting and hurting other people’s feelings”.
The way you express your understanding of the ‘freedom of speech’, it’s very clear you have a lame and confuse comprehension of it. Your think that it is a license to committ of offenses against another person. Very wrong.
Very sad indeed. 🙁
@jameboy,
where ever I used “I” and “you” were only for exanple purpose (and not literally and not personally meant). Maybe I should have said
“In public and in private one can accusse any other person of being a liar. It will never end up going to jail or even have to pay a settlement.”
The Dutch law most likely will have a libel, slander and/or defamatioon law but it is hardly used. Probably it wont stand a chance and will most likely lead to an acquittal.
I cant remember one case where the accuser was sentenced to jail time or sentenced a fine.
Robert, accusing one a liar is a popcorn, bubble gum play. It’s nothing. Nobody gets to jail for calling another a liar.
@jameboy,
last year (2013 or 2014), Dutch politician Geert Wilders, was accused of “hate speech” (haatzaaien). People filed a civil or criminal law suit against Geert. He was acquitted.
Another expression of lame understanding of the freedom of speech. 🙂
Why?
Here’s the reason for his acquittal.
“The presiding judge said Wilders’s remarks were sometimes “hurtful,” “shocking” or “offensive,” but that they were made in the context of a public debate about Muslim integration and multi-culturalism, and therefore not a criminal act.”
Remember the key words: “made in the context of a public debate…” 🙂
No point arguing with jameboy. He’s just going to go find every loophole in the argument just to be that guy who wants to question anything that disagrees with him, even so far as rationalizing an antiquated creed such as Islam.
inb4 Ad Hominem with a sad face.
I am Hungarian I can honestly say that Hungarians don’t and will not take in immigrants. The Hungarian people as a whole is not ready to trust Muslims again any time soon. The issues that Sweden, England, France and other countries are facing with Muslims look familiar to us. We are not naive like Western Europe is We know that the Muslims are not ready to be part of Europe. Our sad history teaches us to be extra careful when it comes to Muslim Arab and Muslim African immigrants since they were part of our former slave and colonial master the Ottomans. 3 million Hungarians were enslaved and dispersed into the Ottoman Empire during their 150 years of terror. They called us “infidel dogs” for being Christian. The entire country was turned into a wasteland. They did what the ISIS is doing now. Sweden just like France with it’s millions of Muslim Immigrants and other Western European countries set themselves up for a failure. They ignored the history and experience of their brother Christian European nations like Hungary and now they pay the price.
@jameboy,
all I want to express is that, it will be hard for a Dutch judge to convict and fine a person when he/she uses his/her freedom of speech.
At this very moment we still have a blasphemy law. But they are in the process – as we speak – of abolishing that specific law (thank god; pun intended).
So that means when that law is abolished, I can riducule and insult your god, your allah, your muhammed, your buddha and whatever.
But will I ever riducule your god? No. Why not? By ridiculing your god, I am recognizing your god as an existing entity.
Probably you wont come after me (in a court of law) even when and if I ridicule your god. Or you may challenge me to sunstantiate my statement or you will simply walk away from me.
With some muslims it is different. They feel insulted (personally), attacked (mentally) and they will revenge me for that. That is what happened in Paris.
Fine with me. Nice talking to you Robert. 🙂
It seems that there are certain elements to drive a wedge between Christians/ Other religions vs. Muslims formenting chaos and division! Same ploy like what happened in Yugoslavia in the 90’s, Chechnina and Russia in the 2000’s and in the Philippines since the 1960’s up to now! Though they failed in the Philippines and in Russia but succeeded in breaking up Yugoslavia! As long Western Governments particularly US covertly supporting Islamist all over the World they will always have some kind of Blow Back in their home countries!!! It’s plain and simple you can not combat terrorist in your home country when you are supporting the very same groups like in Libya, Syria and Iraq! And thus the hypocrisy what Le Penn is saying! I do doubt the timing of this attacks happened after French PM starts to change his policy towards Russia!!!
The wedge between Croats and Bosnians and Serbs and Muslim Albanians were there since the Serbs were conquered by the Muslim Ottoman. Hate and distrust goes back for centuries. All because they were enslaved and humiliated and trashed by in the name of Islam and their collaborators. Yugoslavia was able to suppress it but never ever cancel it out. Think of it as a dormant virus Serbs just like Jews have a vivid historical memory. I guess no one likes to be slaved. It is a huge emotional baggage.
As long as the Muslim immigrant resettlement program allowing easy entry in the US and western Europe is not abolished, violence, Muslim overpopulation and other social problems that Muslims bring will continue to rise.
Muslims generally are low skilled or non-skilled contributing almost nothing to countries that accept them. They prefer living in big cities like New York, Paris or London. Their men drive cabs and women stay at home. Their social skills are non-existent. Muslims have no appreciation of other cultures. In London, Muslim neighborhoods create more garbage than anybody else in the city. I can go on and on and on at the end of the day you wonder WTF are they here if they hate the whole world?
indeed, islam and democracy really dont mix well because at the end, its the religion (for the muslim) who will prevail over common sense, i only hope there is an enlighten muslim who will reform the religion and teaches toleration to its congregation its time they allow some changes because if they dont, even the liberals will lose faith with them
I have read many articles written by the author on the getrealphilippine blog. Usually, especially when dealing with Philippine politics and current events, the author is quite versed with the underlying currents of the issues and at least shows a minimal understanding of events leading to the main event. But in this article, author has shown total lack of understanding European history when dealing with African, Asian and Mediterranean countries. Author fails to see what created the exodus of immigrants into the dominantly white European countries in the first place. Author fails to see that white Europe’s need for raw material has bought it at odds with African, Mid Eastern, Mediterranean and Asian countries since 1800’s. Demand for crude oil, raw metal ore and lumber has driven Europe and its industrial machine to drill, scavenge and for lack of a better word, rape the African and Asian continents. Their need to expand and maintain territory has always bought them at odds with nations they exploit for natural resources, and has pushed them to maintain their colonial mentality in the Africa, Asia, Middle East and the Mediterranean. Algeria, Saudi Arabia, Oman, UAE, Chad and Morocco are very good cases to point. Europe and its allies support despots in foreign lands to keep the local population in check using totalitarian rule, while the exploitation of raw materials by European industrialists continues unabated. People should read more history, or else be condemned to facing the consequences and backlash when history repeats itself. Just by judging a violent reaction to a crime, people absolve the criminal intent and behaviour of expansionist and imperialist Europe and its allies. Want something to get indignant about? Read about pre World War II and post World War II Palestine, and read how Israel as a nation has become worst in its racist policies than the person made infamous by the Jewish holocaust, Adolf Hitler.
Read how many modern day Jews are against the existence of Israel as a nation. Don’t just parrot what the media dictates you to believe.