Some of us Get Real Post writers are often criticised about the way we generalise Filipinos. Indeed, to be fair, there are hundreds of articles here that explore from every angle and at every level of depth, the country’s renowned collective criminality, its petty anti-intellectual political discourse, the routine mediocrity of Filipinos’ undertakings, and the lack of imagination and originality that characterise Philippine arts.
Badly-behaved Filipino police officers undermine the credibility of the entire force.
Source: Photo tweeted by @InquirerDotNet.
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It is true that some Filipinos are honest and law abiding, apply an intelligent mind to solving problems and making sense of the world, aspire to excellence and greatness, and exhibit inspired groundbreaking artistry. The question is, where are these exceptional Filipinos? Why are they not more representative of Philippine society as a whole? Why is it that it is the most dysfunctional elements of our society that come to symbolise the character of our nation?
The best start to a journey towards answering these hard questions is to regard the problem of rampant crime in Philippine society. As a democracy, there is a system in place that provides hard measures around what traits are most valued by ordinary people — elections. Filipino politicians are all elected to office by popular vote. As such, one only needs to look at a good cross section of the sorts of characters that make up their Executive and Legislative branches to get a good feel of the Filipino character. The numbers say it all. The exact degree to which criminality is represented in the Philippines’ elected public offices is measurable.
Suffice to say, enough has been observed and written about the character of Filipino politicians in power to make this straightforward conclusion:
In the Philippines, dishonesty wins.
We need look no further beyond Congress, which has been described as the biggest crime syndicate in the country, than the first-class way with which the Philippines’ prison system pampers the worst of Filipino criminals. Or the way even the most unfortunate of their lot, victims of terrible calamities, are stolen blind by the very people entrusted to help them.
Small surprise that small and exceedingly rare acts of honesty performed by Filipinos often make big headline news. To be honest in the Philippines is to be off character.
Filipino politicians mirror the character of their constituents.
Well, apart from honest Filipinos being vastly outnumbered, perhaps it is also because being honest takes a lot of hard work and a lot of brains. To be able to explain the fundamental principles that are the foundation of an honest and just society takes a lot of skill and patience. For example, whenever there are elections, take (1) the approach traditionally taken to spinning a politician into a winnable candidate and compare it with (2) the ideal way, that of pitching that candidate’s ideas and the way he organises these into a coherent platform.
Which of the two is harder?
Nature always follows a crooked path. Natural waterways like rivers and streams, for example, are never straight as they curve in and out of natural landscapes. On the other hand, man-made engineered waterways like canals, aqueducts, and pipes follow logical patterns often made up of straight stretches.
The fortunes of Filipinos behave much the same way as water flowing through a natural landscape. If we continue to allow Filipinos’ natural traditional character to dictate how these fortunes flow, these will follow a crooked path. Only when we find a way to engineer and build the right social structures to modify the Filipino character to allow for straighter paths to be built, will the possibility of a brighter future be within our country’s reach.
Honest Filipinos should lead the way to build the foundation for that hoped-for brighter future, not the crooked people the majority routinely choose to govern them. Law-abiding Filipinos need to be better-represented not just in government but in the broader challenge of shaping the world’s perception of our society’s collective character.
benign0 is the Webmaster of GetRealPhilippines.com.
“What happened to all the honest Filipinos, then?” … They moved to the US.
Dishonest ones moved there too
On average the ones with better upbringing are taught not to confront people or be seen
“On average the ones with better upbringing are taught not to confront people or be seen.” Hindi better upbringing yun, self preservation ang tawag doon. Natural sa tao na hindi lalaban dahil takot sila sa confrontation, nasa tao na lang yun kung patuloy siyang magiging duwag o gagawa siya ng paraan para ma improve ang sarili niya.
Parang ganito ba?
link
Dishonest ones move there too from time to time, to have their luxury vacation.
Another shortsighted article. Can you really monitor 100 million Filipinos’ way of life by just making several interviews, reading the news, lurking and surfing through the internet, or by claiming “I am the rock star..”?
@jetlag
Did you really believe that all good Filipinos moved to the US? Did you know that in the US, curruption is more rampant and widespread? I have a sister living in the US and she has done extensive research on the democrats, GOP and independent political parties not because she is a political scientist but because on her petition to sign the immigration law and which party is more supportive.
Only a lunatic or an idiot would say corruption in the US is anywhere near on the scales as it is in Stupidville, otherwise known as The Philippines.
Ditto. You hit the mark.
But of course. Filipinos always need to point out that something or someone else is as bad or worse than them at something everytime they’re targets of criticism. It’s their instinctive excuse for not needing to do anything about their faults.
The corruption in the USA is worse because it is at the top.Example ‘A’:The recent $14 Billion fine leveled against JP Morgan/Chase for helping cause the financial meltdown of 2008 INSTEAD of prison sentences for those involved,eh? The $14 Billion was about one-tenth of what they stole and yet a guy sells an un-taxed cigarette in NYC and gets attacked and dies as a result of the asthma attack brought on by a cops choke-hold.U kno, some people actually think imma LUNATIC (but they know me !),but the corruption in the USA is much worse.But the worst of it is at the top where most people do not see,or hear, about it.
In America those people get punished even though the banking officials did not personally get jail time. You cannot compare the dollar figures of an advanced country with the figures of a 4th world country and expect the words “millionaire” and “billionaire” to mean the same thing.
In The Failipppines the best thing that can happen to a corrupt politician is to be caught and get his name in the public eye. The more press, no matter how bad, the guy/bitch gets, the more likely he/she is to be elected. Just look at the criminal enterprises of the Marcoses, Villars and Aquinos for your proof of such.
Roderigo Duterte of Davao is touted as a presidential favorite but he is nothing but a CRIMINAL vigilante who executes ACCUSED (not tried or convicted) people for crimes they may or may not have committed.
Only stupid people perpetuate this stupidity and if you are offended by my accusation then YOU are the problem.
@ Jerry….HA, YOU make ME laugh…and,I will prove YOU wrong.OK,the banking officials at J Morgan/Chase get bonus’s, NOT jail time.The top official at JP Morgan/Chase,Jaime Dimon, immediately after the fine was announced, received a doubling of his salary (from $7 to $14 million)…so,uh, just exactly how does that equate to ‘getting punished’ as you stated,eh? Not a single banker in the USA/West went to jail (even after Elayne Fleischmann’s revelations of blatant complicity by Chase and Citigroup)for their role in the 2008 financial meltdown although at first it seemed like many would,it was all swept under the carpet…all of it.
Nowhere in my comment did I compare ‘millionaires’ or ‘billionaires’ as you hallucinatingly suggest.
Your insults matter not in the least Jerry to me,well, they do…a little…as they make me laugh at you for thinking you know what your talking about.BWAH HA HA HA AHA!Just in case ,and in your defense, The Failippines is a corruption riddled mess,from the top down.
and in case you ever want to enlighten yourself,here is ONE link to what I was referring to: http://dailymailco.paydaycash202.info/news/article-2824580/Witness-s-testimony-powerful-forced-9-billion-settlement-JP-Morgan-
although its most likely,I’d bet,that you’d rather remain in your idiocies, where you feel most comfortable,huh?
Disagree…. and I am an American…. there is no problem in the Philippines that does not also exist in America…. often even worse
Everyone is right!!!! AND Everyone is Wrong!!!…
Let’s Look at it from a Neutral Out Ward Look,(Lets Forget About What We Want as Individuals)
1) The US Government IS VERY VERY CORRUPT, They Have Just Learned To Hide It By “Taking Care Of The World”
(Look At Their Actions and Reactions To The World).
2) The Philippines Government Is Just More…Well, Yea So What? I Did It, But What Can You Do About It?, So You Can Just Continue To Be Victims and Suffer, We Don’t Care and Will Never Be Prosecuted For Our Actions.( Again Look At All The Stolen Money And Services Taken From The Filipino People Who Need It Most, And No One Goes To Prison, Has Their Assets Frozen So The Money Can Be Returned To The People.
I Could Go On Forever As There Are So Many Issues To Address, And Just So Every One knows, I’m A Retired US Military Personal(20 Years of Service in The intelligence and law Services), Have Been Married To My One And Only Wife For 12 Years(Yes She is Full Blooded Filipina), Have Spent 13 Years of My Life In The Philippines,(The Last 8 permanently-This is my Home). I Guess The Point I’m Trying To Make Is, I’ve Been There, Seen and Done That, As The Saying Goes! So Lets Just Keep Things At A How Can The Filipino People(Because All Of YOU OWN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY,EVERY LAST PIECE OF SAND!!!!) Have The Country That Is Deserved On Every Level. Because IT IS UP TO THE PEOPLE TO UNITE AND STAND AS ONE, TO CHANGE THINGS AND HAVE THE COUNTRY,REPUTATION AND LIVES THAT YOU WANT…GOD BLESS THE PHILIPPINES!
Agree totally…. In America the form of graft and corruption is different but just as rampant as here
@aer, I agree with you. I don’t think all honset Filipinos went to the US. Some went to Canada, Australia, UK, SG, HK, etc. But seriously, they were just following the advice of some Filipinos: “kung ayaw nya dito, umalis na kayo ng bansa!!!”
no point arguing with people worse than drax the destroyer as far as recognizing literary devices like hyperbole or are concerned.
Not sure that is true…..MANY Filipinos are culturally “honest”….most of the dishonest ones are the wealthy and educated…..the raw masses are usually honest….One time a Filipino friend joked that Americans taught Filipinos to be dishonest…..there maybe more truth than humor there….but it did not originate with Americans….the Spanish contributed their own share
I believe the dishonesty in the Philippines is mostly a colonial tradition…. verification of sorts….can be found in the fact that most countries that suffered under colonialism bear the same trait
You guys really need to change your method of blogging
It’s simple criticising.
You should add a guide line for people to follow and examples of Filipinos doing good to inspire people to do the same
Continuing the way you’ve been doing and you’re going to turn into that raving madman crying about doomsday
Pretty much ignored as an irritant
You cannot preach about being against anti intellectuals while not taking the intelligent path yourself
Internet ito, sa MTRCB ka magreklamo. Balat sibuyas lang ang nahuhurt sa mga criticisms sa blog na ito. Maganda ang criticism para sa bansa dahil kung walang namimintas sa kamalian ng karamihan, sama sama na lang tayong hihina ang ulo at mauuto. Kung puro goodie goodie lang ang gusto mong basahin di ka na dapat umalis sa pagkabata, maging tanga at inosente ka na lang habambuhay at manood ng my little bossing hangga’t di nasasaid ni vic sotto ang pera mo.
But if we have to outline every bit of positive behavior to Filipinos, that’s spoonfeeding to the unintelligent, isn’t it?
I could “outline every bit of positive behavior (OF not “to”) Filipinos” in half a page of writing, but right now I’m too tired to spend an hour searching for some of those “positive behavior” things to mention.
There’s an infomercial on GMA now that says stuff like “wag gawin sa kalsada ang dapat gawin sa banyo” (i.e. spitting and urinating) and “pag may overpass dun kayo tumawid sa kalsada.” That just shows how idiotic our society is.
If thats the kind of preaching you want this blog to do, it will immediately start to sound like that infomercial.
“Which of the two is harder?”
For Filipinos, the right thing to do is always harder.
Where the good of this country is concern, pang-ilan kaya iyon or is it even one of the Filipinos top priorities? The fact that “little problems” are not taken seriously (such as dirty surroundings/improper waste disposal) explains why everything else seems to be growing and aren’t suppressible. If one can’t be accountable for small things, more so on bigger things. I think the secret of the law-abiding Filipinos is not merely being honest but also not being stupid and at best using their common sense. And this they model so surely you can’t find then in the place where laws are being broken (literally).
Ah, yea. The latter becomes the problem when the lack of involvement of these honest Filipinos or not having the fangs to fight for what is right “[per the article] allow dishonesty to march up and claim the top spot in the Philippines’ food chain”.
So the generalization somehow explains the true Filipino character at present time -> the lack of strong character as mirrored in the kind of society and government governing the Philippines.
They’re all dead.
Andres Bonifacio, Jesse Robredo, Ramon Magsaysay (to an extent) …
Let’s face it, honesty in the Philippines can be LETHAL.
Agree. Kaya ang mga taong may gusto ng pagbabago, umaalis na lang ng bansa dahil mas napapakinggan sila sa abroad kesa sa sariling bayan. Magsalita ka ng criticism sa kapwa mo pilipino, tatawagin kang traydor, anti pinoy, o walang hiya. Ganun kabopol ang sistema ng Pinas. Ang mabait pinapatay. Ang nagsasalita para sa totoong ikauunlad nilalayuan.
Puwes, handa kong aminin na ako’y Walang Hiya dahil wala akong dapat ikahiya sa mga sinasabi ko at sa mga batikos ng website na ito dahil karamihan sa kanila ay TOTOO!
Para sa akin, mas-okay pang magkaroon ng kaibigan na pumupuna sa mali ng kapwa para magkaroon ng kaunlaran kesa sa sunod-sunuran na panay “oo” na lang dahil paniguradong walang patutunguhan ang pangalawa.
One of my friends said this:
If there is someone who wants to watch over you and instead of correcting you by not giving a f*ck, what you want is an accomplice.
Hey, dude, the three people you’ve listed died tragically. Coincidence? :-S
“Some of us Get Real Post writers are often criticised about the way we generalise Filipinos.”
Tang inang mga sensitive na balat sibuyas yan. Kaya nga tinawag na generalise dahil understood sa salitang yun ang root word na “general” o “karamihan.” Ibig sabihin kung hindi naman sila guilty at kasama sa ginagawa ng “karamihan” di sila ngangawa. Anggaling kasi ng mga Pilipino ipagtanggol ang lahi niya pero pag ibang lahi ang nagkakamali, nilalahat nila. Tulad na lang kay Pemberton at Chinese military people sa Sabah, sasabihin ng pinoy lahat ng amerikano mamamatay tao. Lahat ng chinese mang-aagaw ng lupa. New year na kaya magbago na kayong mga kunwaring makabayan. Ang totoong makabayan ay tinatanggap ang criticism para mag improve ang sarili at hindi puro pagyayabang sa accomplishment ng boksingero o singer sa the voice ang alam. Kung di pa rin nila maintindihan ang salitang generalization eh bumalik sila sa grade 3. Basic english to filipino translation lang di pa maintindihan.
I see nothing wrong in people criticizing what you write. The thing is, is there reason to criticize you.
Binanggit mo ang ‘we generalize Filipinos’. Kumbaga, you are using it as a shield, a license to disparage, criticize and at some instances ridicule and insult, IN GENERAL, Filipinos. So, when somebody questions or criticize you, your defense is ‘generalize’.
I think that is a narrow way of supporting your output here. You should counter criticisms with facts or reason. Don’t just hide behind ‘generalize’ and be content about it.
No offense meant, kung mapipikon ka dahil somebody criticized what you wrote and all you can come up as a defense or explanation is ‘generalize’, ikaw ang balat-sibuyas.
Ha? Ano raw?
Only a few understood English in the Philippines.
Another good one there Benign0!
One of the biggest problems in the Philippines is APATHY. Even the good and honest people simply don’t care enough to do something about it. And even when they do, they are often denied support by institutions who are supposed to be working for the betterment of this country.
It’s all very sad…
Which gives credence to the statement that in order to get something done, you need to do it outside the system.
It is a commentary on what is there. What is there is moronic. Reality is a reflection of the community’s values . Which is tragically ABS CBN and the MMFF. Not exactly a breeding ground for MENSA. The culture is dumb and the fools that keep it all going could care less. Those same fools hate GRP because of Colonel Jessup’s immortal words.
Colonel Jessup said, “You can’t handle the truth.” (A Few Good Men)
If more Filipinos would actually complain about such things as poor service, thieving politicians and lack of thinking, then just maybe things would start to change a bit. Until you quit selling your vote for a kilo of rice you will get nothing better other than a kilo of NFA rice that has been misdirected (stolen) in the first place.
Let’s play pretend and put ourselves in the lap of the guy selling his vote for that kilo of rice. Most likely he’s dirt-poor, underemployed if employed at all, and can barely afford his three square meals a day. What’s more, he’s got a family to feed — wife, five, six, seven children — and for him to feed and clothe all of them, let alone put them through school (he probably didn’t finish elementary, from the looks of things) — Sisyphus, meet your replacement?
So in this context, what is a kilo of rice? Rice is love, rice is life. Putting principle over expediency is good if you’re the only guy who starves… but if you’ve got other mouths to feed… then?
Then get the rice and vote for who you think is the best anyway.
Easier said than done — the poor guy doesn’t know if the candidate (or incumbent) to whom he’s being two-faced has people checking if indeed the sucker voted for him, and he doesn’t know whether or not there will be bloody blowback in some form or fashion. (Or he does know, so he’s not taking chances.)
Between this, the poor voter being sufficiently cynical to consider political participation a dead end, or plain “I didn’t know I could use my vote to render politicians accountable to me – to us plain joes”, the reason for the status quo persisting to the detriment of everyone on the take.
Pallacertus,
That is a good point actually if that person’s life is really beyond his control. It’s the old debate of principle vs survival, but that does not address the other cultural flaws of Filipinos that impede on their potential to progress and prosper, such as not having too many children to begin with, a penchant for partying and celebrating beyond one’s means, a tendency to focus on trivial and irrelevant things instead of the more sensible and practical side of things, less emphasis on quality and more on pwede-na-yan, and so on.
But the problem is, most Filipinos do have control over their lives more than they realize. When you’re dirt-poor, unemployed and lack education, why would you have lots of children? And while having sired many kids, why spend time drinking, gambling, idling by and not creating opportunities for oneself, and then complain about their poverty?
The way I see it is a bunch of people, irresponsible people, who despite the harsh realities of their circumstances and their disadvantages, still manage to pour their energies on unproductive and stupid things. They’re like children. In essence, the Philippines is like a teenager amongst the family of nations. And what are teenagers like? They are often irresponsible, carefree, prone to do stupid things and prone to make mistakes.
Okay, so sell the vote, make the money (or rice) but vote for the right person. There is no way for the vote buyer to know if you voted for him/her or for someone else.
@Jmac:
“But the problem is, most Filipinos do have more control over their lives than they realize.”
… but if they don’t know they have the power to control their lives, or do know but don’t have the means, then what do?
“When you’re dirt-poor, unemployed and lack education, why would you have lots of children?”
Check your history — the poorer you are, the more likely you are to have lots of kids, largely because you’d want to fuck whether you can get a condom or not.
“And while having sired many kids, why spend time drinking, gambling, idling by and not creating opportunities for oneself, and then complain about their poverty?”
I’ll ask the one that first comes to mind: you really think that the base salary after taxes and other deductions for the unskilled urban worker in this country is a livable wage, even if he spends it all just for himself?
Secondly: Really?
And lastly: Are you saying this from experience? How much experience have you had of the working poor here?
Pallacertus,
“… but if they don’t know they have the power to control their lives, or do know but don’t have the means, then what do?”
Why would they not know they have the power to control their lives? Sure they cannot choose to become rich or be a superhero overnight, but to the things they can meaningfully influence, like not spending beyond one’s means, they have reasonable control over those aspects of their lives.
As for not having the means, then simply don’t have too many children or don’t spend what little money they have on vices and so on.
“Check your history — the poorer you are, the more likely you are to have lots of kids, largely because you’d want to fuck whether you can get a condom or not.”
So they have many children because they’re poor, not because they’re just irresponsible, but according to you it’s still not their fault?
“I’ll ask the one that first comes to mind: you really think that the base salary after taxes and other deductions for the unskilled urban worker in this country is a livable wage, even if he spends it all just for himself?”
No it isn’t enough and I never claimed that it’s enough. It isn’t enough, that’s why many leave. It’s strange how you made that connection with my comment.
“Secondly: Really?”
Really what?
“And lastly: Are you saying this from experience? How much experience have you had of the working poor here?”
Yes in fact I DO have lots of experience but I don’t see how that’s relevant here. I don’t why you’re denying that most of the poor have also as much fault for their poverty because of their bad habits as the unequal and corrupt system put in place by the oligarchy.
Or maybe you’re just incapable of making a sound argument and the best you can do is clumsily connecting the pieces.
All the same, bunch of lazy 3rd world deadbeats. No one complains because they are to lazy to do so they just expect someone else to do it.
“Those same fools hate GRP because of Colonel Jessup’s immortal words.”
“You can’t handle the truth”? Very stirring, but it would be nice if the folks here at GRP know what hubris is, that they despite their penetrating views of the masses don’t have the exclusive grip on the truth, nor are they entitled to feelings of superiority if not misanthropy.
boom! sapul hahah!
@Pallacertus: It’s not that GRP writers believe we have “exclusive grip on the truth.” It’s more like we put forth confronting ideas but often fail to get an intelligent counterargument from those who beg to differ.
Rather than our detractors going around stomping their feet and wailing about the “hubris” they perceive in our writing, they should instead channel their energies into formulating a coherent response to ideas they disagree with.
i live in New York for 13 years, the corruption in the US is much lower than in the philippines.and when they got caught tney always pay..
Why is it that everyone seems to think that Filipino’s are measured by the people that are elected to political office? Everyone knows the elections are rigged and the politicians are all crooks.So it is not by these people that Filipino’s are necessarily measured,it is not.
Any visitor that enters the Republic of the Philippines in Manila doesn’t make it to the front of NAIA without being set upon by at least 5 different thieving Taxi-cab drivers all charging a different price to go to the same place,they just don’t.
To assume that people are not capable of judging the individual merits of people in a given country is in-correct.It is a more accurate statement to make that the entire country, from the top down, is a scam.It just is, and the author is correct:Dishonesty wins. The honest people get screwed at every turn and are preyed upon and soon enough honesty turns into a losing proposition.In such a place, the truth is simply that the Filippines is a place to scam or be scammed. It is a shame that any of the few honest Filipino’s are given a bad reputation from the get go in any transaction but that is the way it goes,”One bad apple…”…..
The entire country has turned into a cesspit and in S.E.Asia Filipino’s are seen as scamming scumbags.It is not because other people just make the shit up, u kno?
They probably are making at least part of that shit up — though there is no pride in telling this given the economic straits we’re in, Pinoy workers the world over are generally considered reliable and trustworthy. Whether it be maids in Singapore, construction workers in Dubai, nurses in the USA, or seamen sailing from sea to shining sea, our collective reputation is real good.
i need to understand the impact of that statement. ” filipino reputation is good” because ,ive been living in new york for tha past 13 years, i own a small construction company.. i did not experience at all, being told that filipinos have good reputation..i still need to show or prove something before customer will take me as their contractor.. and if i did good. they did not attrribute it to my being a filipino or ask me if i ever have a filipino freind that i can hire. in one of the house that i maintained for 8 years, the baby sitter/cleaning lady is a filipino and tbey fired her in front of me for being incompetent. they keep me for 4 more years after the fired that lady until they sold tbe house..
i dont think filipino nurses in new york where also praised collectively has having good reputations. its still an individual or case to case basis..not collectively. and i did not hear anything that the best nurses tag/label was monopolized by filipino nurses.
i think you are justvgeneralizing pallacertus
Probably. But it’s one thing to hear it from all-too-adulatory media outlets covering the travails of our “modern-day heroes” (sheesh), and quite another hearing it from the OFWs themselves.
(Of course, first-hand experience beats second-hand storytelling here. So sue me.)
Pallacertus,
That kind of statemet will never pass on the Get Real blog without some or all of its writers ganging up on you. This blog expresses mostly, based on what I read, anti-Filipinos. Anything that relates to life and survival, Filipinos don’t get it. They will never get it. They are doomed and will surely fail. That’s the message I get.
I could be wrong and I hope someone will show me proof otherwise.
Whether you are correct or not, what is most important to me is not the question of whether we have reliable and trustworty reputation around the world. What is important for me is if Filipinos, as employees or workers, are being rejected the world over.
Apparently, the answer is not.
Jameboy,
And if they’re not being rejected the world over, what does that prove exactly?
This comment just below (http://getrealphilippines.com/2014/12/law-abiding-filipinos-are-getting-sick-of-law-breaking-filipinos/comment-page-1/#comment-1021529) you is made especially for you.
“(f) Balat Sibuyas — the immediate reaction of Pinoys to any criticism is to repulse it, instead of thinking of the golden opportunity to correct ourselves — again, this is not being honest with oneself. See why our erring officials don’t resign because the flipside of the same coin is being “kapalmuks” “
I’m an American married to a Filipino and I have met Filipino OFWs in Saudi, Korea, Japan and also in America. They ARE generally considered to be quality workers able to accomplish things. So why, when they return home to the PI, do they revert back to the stupid, lazy, unimaginative, helpless dipshits their relatives and neighbors are?
Jmac, that proves that we’re normal. We are just like other people that value hard work and family.
Exactly we’re normal. Then why make the tacit claim that Filipinos are all and only trustworthy and reliable, when other nationalities are just as capable? Remember you said ‘like other people’.
I’ll tell you what, what I think is many hard-working Filipinos abroad just happened to be that way. They don’t have a monopoly on trustworthiness and reliability. They have no choice. They have to be that, or risk losing their livelihood which they and their families depend on. Because of that sense of urgency created by that need to have a better life, they are driven to work hard. That’s the motivation, not because trustworthiness and reliability are innate to Filipinos. Plus they’re a minority of strangers in foreign unfamiliar lands. But that’s only my opinion.
Filipinos are all and only trustworthy and reliable? I don’t remember reading that kind of line. What I read in Pallacertus’ post, which I took him to task, was this:
“Pinoy workers the world over are generally considered reliable and trustworthy.”
Notice the term ‘generally’ in there? Anyway, like what I said, that is not important to me. What’s important is we don’t have tne oppostite reputation and we’re not being rejected as workers/employees.
Jameboy,
True, but nobody claimed the opposite as well. The typical hiring process in businesses don’t specifically take into account an aspirant’s ethnicity or nationality, unless it’s the firm’s policy or a country’s laws provides for that impediment.
Which is ironic, given the fact that the world is willing to hire Filipino labor yet Filipinos are not willing to hire foreign workers or professionals here in the Philippines. This is why most foreign expats resort to business, which is one area with the least prohibitions against foreigners.
Filipinos love spouting how they are being hired the world over for their perceived trustworthiness and reliability but CANNOT do the same for foreigners willing to work and settle in the Philippines.
“…the world is willing to hire Filipino labor yet Filipinos are not willing to hire foreign workers or professionals here in the Philippines.” – Jmac
=======
I don’t know what to make of that statement. Is the Phil. making it a policy not to hire foreign workers or is that expressing one’s opinion of foreigners not getting jobs in the country? Either way, both possibilites requires proof which could he hard to get given the reality on the ground.
I think foreigners are welcome and do work in the Phil. I’m not aware of any policy not to hire foreign workers/professionals.
Jameboy,
Article XII, section 14 of the 1987 Philippine Constitution states: “The practice of all professions in the Philippines shall be limited to Filipino citizens save in cases prescribed by law.”
There are several professions that are limited ONLY to Philippine nationals, including lawyers, criminologists, pharmacists, environmental planners etc. Other professions don’t have total prohibition but DO have their restrictions against foreign nationals (as stated above, provided by law) and these have reciprocity provisions included (meaning their country of origin must also not restrict a Filipino working in said profession).
Moreover, the administrative requirements are difficult to satisfy. If a foreigner still managed to go through all the legal barriers and have obtained the necessary permits and a working visa, the foreigner would have to make do with a fraction of the salary usually given in that profession in their countries of origin.
Yes there are restrictions to foreign nationals working in the Philippines, and many professions are limited ONLY to Philippine nationals as prescribed by law. You can look these laws up. And for those professions with no total restrictions to foreigners, it is often very difficult to go through all the legal process just to be allowed to work.
There’s your proof, so I’m not really talking out of my ass. Do you want to learn more Jameboy?
Even better, I recommend talking to foreigners living in the Philippines or who have lived here for a long time (and not some two-bit tourist whose whole “More Fun in the Philippines” experience took only a few days) and learn from their first-hand experiences.
Your last line spoiled everything you invested in the info you enumerated above. But I’ll not get into that because it’s counter-productive.
Let’s cut to the chase. Although I appreciate the effort, I really did not learn anything in what you showed and said. The article you cited above is not a prohibition and it is also not exclusive to the Phil. All countries have expressed provisions with regard to protecting and prioritzing their citizens and everything that concerns them.
I hate to say this but you are no longer talking of the subject matter of this article. You are practically discussing issues concerning matters relating to foreigners and issues that affects them which you think is the fault of the gov’t.
Raise the issue on the relevant article and we’ll continue the discussion there.
Happy New Year to All! : )
Jameboy,
So basically you’re saying that because other countries have prohibitions, it’s okay for the Philippines to have them too? The fact that everywhere you go you’ll see Filipino professionals, seamen, doctors, nurses, engineers, cooks, receptionists, managers etc., of almost every profession and every type of industry, healthcare, construction, shipping, tourism, retail, manufacturing, architecture, finance etc. from low-skilled workers to highly-skilled professionals…can you say the same for foreigners taking up permanent residency in the Philippines? Do you see foreigners being provided equal opportunity here in the Philippines? If so, why do most resort to small businesses, which often fail? Very few foreigners who took up permanent residency were able to eke out a decent living here.
The fact that you did not address a single point in my comment means you really have nothing constructive to say and merely full of hot air.
You did not learn anything? That’s willful ignorance right there.
“I hate to say this but you are no longer talking of the subject matter of this article.”
Oh so you have no clue about the natural fluidity of conversations. Maybe you haven’t experienced a lot of social interactions but subjects tend to move from one subject to another. Plus there are no rules here regarding sticking to the main subject matter. It’s not as if were talking about law-abiding Filipinos and suddenly talked about Hunger Games Mockingjay. What we’re is STILL related to the main subject matter.
Or maybe you are just incapable of framing a good argument and really have no clue what you’re talking about and resort to “off-topic” remarks to hide your cluelessness.
“You are practically discussing issues concerning matters relating to foreigners and issues that affects them which you think is the fault of the gov’t.”
Who else’s fault would it be?
Maybe you’re one of those “Filipinos are blameless” types, in which case I’m arguing with a dense brick wall.
*correction* What we are discussing is STILL related to the main subject matter.
Jmac,
So basically you’re saying that because other countries have prohibitions, it’s okay for the Philippines to have them too?
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Wrong. Other countries protect and priorities the concerns of their citizens. Why would we be different from that?
The fact that everywhere you go you’ll see Filipino professionals, seamen, doctors, nurses, engineers, cooks, receptionists, managers etc., of almost every profession and every type of industry, healthcare, construction, shipping, tourism, retail, manufacturing, architecture, finance etc. from low-skilled workers to highly-skilled professionals…can you say the same for foreigners taking up permanent residency in the Philippines?
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No, because our economy can only take so much. Unlike other countries, we cannot absorb foreign workers to the detriment of our own citizens. You failed to see the fact that we are among the main suppliers of labor to the world.
Yes, you’ll all see those Pinoy workers everywhere because they are needed in those countries. They want our workers/professionals. As they say, ‘it’s the economy…..’
Do you see foreigners being provided equal opportunity here in the Philippines?
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Have you tried asking some PBA foreign players that question? I’ve known a number of foreigners in Mindoro living and doing business there. They have no complaint. Why don’t you ask them?
Happy New Year!
‘… I recommend talking to foreigners living in the Philippines or who have lived here for A LONG TIME…’ – Jmac
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Lived here for a long time? Really? Isn’t that an indication that they like it here?
“Wrong. Other countries protect and priorities the concerns of their citizens. Why would we be different from that?”
BS. The Philippines does not necessarily prioritize its own citizens. If it did, why would so many Filipinos seek employment abroad?
I’m just pointing out the fact that Filipinos have double standards.
“No, because our economy can only take so much. Unlike other countries, we cannot absorb foreign workers to the detriment of our own citizens. You failed to see the fact that we are among the main suppliers of labor to the world.”
Main suppliers? That’s a stretch.
I fail to see the fact? I was the one who first mentioned there are Filipino workers and professionals all over the world.
“Yes, you’ll all see those Pinoy workers everywhere because they are needed in those countries. They want our workers/professionals. As they say, ‘it’s the economy…..’”
They don’t want our workers/professionals anymore than the world buys cheap Chinese products. It’s because Filipino labor is cheap relative to their own local citizens, that’s the ultimate reason why they’re being hired in the first place.
“Have you tried asking some PBA foreign players that question? I’ve known a number of foreigners in Mindoro living and doing business there. They have no complaint. Why don’t you ask them?”
PBA imports? That’s your proud example? Haha I’m laughing my ASS OFF.
I can see another contradiction you made. The PBA hires and prioritizes foreign imports to the detriment of local basketball talent. But you just said “we cannot absorb foreign workers to the detriment of our own citizens”
Stupid is stupid ain’t it.
And yes, foreigners in Mindoro doing business. Didn’t I just mention that foreigners have little to no choice here but to do business, since professional employment opportunities for them are so restricted, prohibitive and difficult to obtain?
You’re unaware that you’re basically proving my point.
Do you have short-term memory problems?
“Lived here for a long time? Really? Isn’t that an indication that they like it here?”
Hopeless ka jameboy, tsk tsk. I’ll give you an example.
http://www.philippinefailblog.com
I recommend reading the site in its entirety. A lot of them stay here not because they want to. They made a mistake coming here, getting hitched, now they’re in a situation they are currently unable to get out of.
There are other blogs I came across similar in scope and purpose, made by foreign-expats but I cannot remember their urls. The site above is good because it has as its membership a community of likeminded foreign-expats, who thought they were alone in their frustrations living here, but who eventually discovered the blog and found out other expats share the same frustrations.
So you see jameboy, the only way this country will TRULY progress is if defensive Filipinos such as yourself stop being myopic and parochial and accept the harsh truth. I want the country to prosper but how in the hell can it prosper when people like you continue to put fingers in your ears and sing la la la when confronted with the truth.
BS. The Philippines does not necessarily prioritize its own citizens. If it did, why would so many Filipinos seek employment abroad?
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Ngeh! All the answers are there in my post. Keywords: absorb; supplier of workforce.
Paulit-ulit, paulit-ulit, pa……….. 🙂
I’m just pointing out the fact that Filipinos have double standards.
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Other countries have double standards when it comes to their citizens. And you criticized Filipinos, your kind, about it? Where are your priorities? What are you?
Main suppliers? That’s a stretch.
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It’s only a stretch when you don’t know or refuse to accept it. Hay. 🙁
They don’t want our workers/professionals anymore than the world buys cheap Chinese products. It’s because Filipino labor is cheap relative to their own local citizens, that’s the ultimate reason why they’re being hired in the first place.
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They don’t want our workers but they hire them anyway because they’re cheap? Really? If you don’t want somebody/something you don’t get them/it. Cheap is not the only criteria of employment abroad. You should know that.
PBA imports? That’s your proud example? Haha I’m laughing my ASS OFF.
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You asked a question and when the answer is given you laugh and insult the person who responded instead of disputing or disproving the answer. Not a mature response.
The PBA hires and prioritizes foreign imports to the detriment of local basketball talent.
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Prove that, boy.
And yes, foreigners in Mindoro doing business.
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Good.
Didn’t I just mention that foreigners have little to no choice here but to do business, since professional employment opportunities for them are so restricted, prohibitive and difficult to obtain?
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Well, why stay if you are not happy? What you say doesn’t make sense.
What do you want, the Filipinos to roll out the red carpet for foreigners and give them everything they want? Not gonna happen, boy, not gonna happen.
Jameboy,
“Ngeh! All the answers are there in my post. Keywords: absorb; supplier of workforce.
Paulit-ulit, paulit-ulit, pa……….. :)”
Um, no. They seek employment abroad because of lack of opportunities here and low pay.
May sarili kang mundo no?
“Other countries have double standards when it comes to their citizens. And you criticized Filipinos, your kind, about it? Where are your priorities?”
And which countries are those, and do they matter? Diba pinaguusapan natin ang labor and employment sa Pilipinas diba? I just mentioned other countries to support my point.
Para kang bata. “Mommy, ayaw niya pahiram toy niya!” “Ayaw mo din pahiram toy mo eh!” It’s a logical fallacy “tu quoque”.
Whether other countries have double standards or not is irrelevant to our discussion, and DOES NOT make right the double standards of the Philippines. Basically, you are indeed implying and admitting that I’M RIGHT, that there is indeed a double standard in the Philippines when it comes to employment of foreigners.
“What are you?””
Alien. Hindi, tao ako siyempre.
“It’s only a stretch when you don’t know or refuse to accept it. Hay. :(”
Eh wala ka nga naputanayan eh. Bakit ako tatanggap ng bagay na hindi pa napapatunayan. Gunggong ka ba?
“They don’t want our workers but they hire them anyway because they’re cheap? Really? If you don’t want somebody/something you don’t get them/it. Cheap is not the only criteria of employment abroad. You should know that.”
You can’t even understand simple English. How stupid. Let me rephrase so that your simple mind can understand: they don’t hire Filipino workers not because they’re special or better than anyone. They hire them for the simple reason that they’re cheap, cheaper to hire than their local citizens. Any other reason is because of the bottomline. Reliability? Less long-term risk and how useful they’ll be for the company. Skills? How they can contribute to a company’s bottomline. Competency? How well they can contribute their skills.
Are those things what you’re talking about? All icing on the cake, and subject to the demands of the bottomline. Do you know why companies move their manufacturing from their countries of origin to developing countries? Because of cheaper labor. They won’t hire a Filipino just because he’s a Filipino if he’s too expensive.
And anyway, even if they did hire him or her, is it necessarily because they’re Filipino? No.
“You asked a question and when the answer is given you laugh and insult the person who responded instead of disputing or disproving the answer. Not a mature response.”
Oh so in other words you really have no worthy rebuttal? I laughed because that is a pathetic argument you made right there. Just because there are PBA imports does not mean that employment opportunities in the Philippines for foreigners is equitable.
Insults? You’re insulting my intelligence with your inanity as we speak.
“Prove that, boy.”
I thought it would be obvious enough for you, girl. This kid sums it up for me nicely.
http://www.theguidon.com/1112/main/2014/05/local-flavor-going-all-filipino-in-the-pba/
Need proof girl?
http://ph.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/sportztackle/story-fil-am-players-100507165.html
Having 5 Fil-foreigners in each team is not too many? Most of them aren’t even worth the hype they’ve been given, just because they’re foreign-born or was raised elsewhere doesn’t automatically mean they’re better players. And besides, local Filipino basketball talent is becoming better, bigger and more athletic. So why still give priority to foreigners/imports?
Even in college basketball, there are many foreigners or those of foreign-descent
http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/sports/01/04/13/imports-uaap-ncaa-bad-ph-basketball
“Well, why stay if you are not happy? What you say doesn’t make sense.
What do you want, the Filipinos to roll out the red carpet for foreigners and give them everything they want? Not gonna happen, boy, not gonna happen.”
Wow girl, you just completely ignored the example I gave you regarding foreign-expats living here.
And no girl, never did I say anything about treating foreigners like VIPs. How many times did I mention the word “equality” or “equal employment opportunity”? Not enough? In that case
Filipinos should give EQUAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES to foreigners the same way foreigners are giving EQUAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES to Filipinos abroad.
Still not clear enough for you girl? Let me repeat that in ALL CAPS.
FILIPINOS SHOULD GIVE EQUAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES TO FOREIGNERS THE SAME WAY FOREIGNERS ARE GIVING EQUAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES TO FILIPINOS ABROAD.
Whether other countries have double standards or not is irrelevant to our discussion, and DOES NOT make right the double standards of the Philippines. – Jmac
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That is what you want to dictate to me. Sorry, I have my own mind and it is better than yours.
When you try to make it appear that we are the worst country because we have double standards, etc. I have to point out that what you’re invented accusation is not exclusive to us. That it is normal to protect and secure the concern of your citizen.
Stop dictating to me what we should talk about. You read the post, stay on topic and be mature enough to respond in a sober manner instead of acting like a spoiled brat.
FILIPINOS SHOULD GIVE EQUAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES TO FOREIGNERS THE SAME WAY FOREIGNERS ARE GIVING EQUAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES TO FILIPINOS ABROAD.
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That’s a good introduction to a Disney movie. Lol! 🙂
“That is what you want to dictate to me. Sorry, I have my own mind and it is better than yours.”
Yeah real mature of you. Whatever you say, may sarili ka ngang mundo.
“When you try to make it appear that we are the worst country because we have double standards, etc. I have to point out that what you’re invented accusation is not exclusive to us. That it is normal to protect and secure the concern of your citizen.”
Oh I’m not trying. Filipinos are already doing a good job at making their country really bad. So I’m not inventing, just stating facts. It’s not the worst country so don’t exaggerate, but it’s not the best either, far far far from it being the best.
The Philippines is not actually protecting and securing the concerns of their citizens. If that is true, why are there so many poor people here? Why are laws not being enforced well? Why is the infrastructure dilapidated? Why is there so much corruption? Why are its countless citizens willing and hoping to get out, emigrate or seek employment abroad? These are some of the questions that smack in the face of your so-called ‘protecting the concerns of its citizens”
“Stop dictating to me what we should talk about. You read the post, stay on topic and be mature enough to respond in a sober manner instead of acting like a spoiled brat.”
Yet you failed to address my points and completely ignored most of my arguments and instead resorting to this whining. Don’t whine like a whiny bitch when you have no comeback.
“That’s a good introduction to a Disney movie. Lol!”
You have a bizarre sense of humor, one that only you can understand. May sarili ka ngang mundo.
The Philippines is not actually protecting and securing the concerns of their citizens. If that is true, why are there so many poor people here? Why are laws not being enforced well? Why is the infrastructure dilapidated? Why is there so much corruption? Why are its countless citizens willing and hoping to get out, emigrate or seek employment abroad? These are some of the questions that smack in the face of your so-called ‘protecting the concerns of its citizens”
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Good questions. At least, you finally got rid of the “Oh, the foreigners are so ‘kawawa’ in our country” mentality.
To answer your questions, yes, just like other countries we have those kinds of problems. No doubt, we have many poor people. That is why I’m wondering, why is it you are so aggressive about the concern of foreigners when you know that we have a lot of poor people? Doesn’t make sense.
With laws not enforced well, we are not perfect but we’re trying. Infrastructure dilapidated, as in Cuba? I mean, we’re not world-class but we doing okay on that area. On the issue of corruption, yes, there is and we continue to be hobbled by it. There’s a lot of work to be done and it cannot be accomplish by just asking ‘why’. People look for jobs outside simply because there are more opportunities there. While you think of the concerns of foreigners here, our people try to make things happen for them.
Like I said, we can only take so much. Be glad that a number of our people don’t just sit around and complain and asks the whys and the wherefore.
“Good questions. At least, you finally got rid of the “Oh, the foreigners are so ‘kawawa’ in our country” mentality.”
Of course they’re good questions. I don’t need your approval to tell me they’re good questions. You really think much of yourself do you?
No I haven’t gotten rid of the ‘foreigners are kawawa’ because a lot of them are in an unfortunate state. You completely ignored the link I gave you in which you can see their testimonials and you haven’t shown you to any foreigner who has lived here for a significant amount of time.
“To answer your questions, yes, just like other countries we have those kinds of problems. No doubt, we have many poor people. That is why I’m wondering, why is it you are so aggressive about the concern of foreigners when you know that we have a lot of poor people? Doesn’t make sense.”
Why doesn’t it make sense for me to be concerned about the welfare of ALL PEOPLE regardless of nationality or ethnicity? Are you really this dense?
“With laws not enforced well, we are not perfect but we’re trying. Infrastructure dilapidated, as in Cuba? I mean, we’re not world-class but we doing okay on that area.”
Another logical fcking fallacy that I’m getting tired of hearing from your small mind. Just because Cuba has it (if they do have dilapidated infrastructure) DOES NOT MAKE IT OK for the Philippines to have dilapidated infrastructure.
My God girl show some common sense.
“On the issue of corruption, yes, there is and we continue to be hobbled by it. There’s a lot of work to be done blah blah blah”
Christ, of course there’s a lot of work to be done. Why settle on being complacent Pinoys like you often showcase?
Yes obviously they work abroad because there are more opportunities out there. Why? Because there are less opportunities back home.
Simple common sense.
“Like I said, we can only take so much. Be glad that a number of our people don’t just sit around and complain and asks the whys and the wherefore.”
Yes I’m glad there are good sensible people making a difference and from what I can tell, you’re obviously not one of them, as shown by your myopic perception of things, lack of common sense, willful ignorance and pretensions.
Huwag na tayo mag plastikan pa.
*correction*
You haven’t shown any instance that you have talked to any foreigner living here for a significant amount of time and hear about their experiences.
Why doesn’t it make sense for me to be concerned about the welfare of ALL PEOPLE regardless of nationality or ethnicity? Are you really this dense?
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Mr. United Nations? Lol! 🙂
No I haven’t gotten rid of the ‘foreigners are kawawa’ because a lot of them are in an unfortunate state.
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Mr. Secretary of Foreign Affairs? 🙂 🙂 🙂
Huwag na tayo mag plastikan pa.
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Chairman of the Board of Tupperware. 🙂 🙁 🙂
I always hear about that so-called “reliable and trustworthy” reputation that Filipinos love to spout yet I have never seen substantial evidence to prove it. On the other hand, for every flimsy proof put forward that allegedly shows the trustworthiness and reliability of Filipinos, there is a counterexample that shows the opposite. It’s a fallacy often spouted by Filipinos.
And besides, I have to question the notion that only Filipinos are capable of trustworthiness and reliability, when in fact other nationalities are just as capable, if not more capable than Filipinos.
Remember that we’re talking about the law of averages buttressed by the human tendency to brag and to fall to flattery here; it may well be that the average Pinoy worker is no more capable than the average worker of non-native nationality, but it’s not as if there are reliable ways of finding out whether or not it is true.
Yeah, so we does hire “reliable and trustworthy” Filipinos in our businesses. So does Cebu Pacific with its shitty way of doing customer service this season. Way to go for our reputation as reliable and trustworthy, or efficient and effective. Now our Filipino workers that efficient and effective?
“never seen”….maybe because you do not know where or how to look…. I have only been here 12 years but I see examples of inherent Filipino honesty everywhere….one example a study made by the Philippine Star (?) where 80 wallets with money were “LOST” …..over sixty percent were returned …..sometimes the wallets even had more money in them than when they were “lost”….. I seriously doubt that would happen in my country….or in most other countries
one of the disturbing Filipino traits is a willingness….even an eagerness to believe the worst about yourselves….
Kojak,
The Philippine Star, you mean the broadsheet that once headline “Black Smoke, No Pope” when all the other news publications reported a new pope has been elected, back when Pope Francis was elected the new Pope?
Yeah really reliable.
I did not even discount the fact that Filipinos are capable of honesty. I’m just questioning the notion Filipinos have a monopoly on it.
If Filipinos are so honest, why is there so much dishonesty in Philippine government and society then? Why is the country so messed up?
@ Pallacertus, the comment is concerned about Filipino’s INSIDE the Philippines,see?
It’s simple the law abiding Filipinos have day jobs and it costs too much for the good guys to run for public office.
Now will the members of the biggest criminal syndicate ever pass a law to make it financially and procedurally easier to run for public office thereby facilitating more pluralistic representation? Short answer no.
So what to do in a situation where going through legal methods will not solve the situation?
this is a good article..
law abiding Filipinos are around, theyre just busy surviving this country that is spiraling down the drain…
eventually some law abiding citizens turn to the darkside because one cannoy progress in thos country without breaking a rule here and there, late for work? jaywalk…
feeling entitled? jump ahead, jump the queue…cannot be bothered to dispose of thrash? throw it out the house…
need to pee with no toilet around? oh look! there’s a corner…
this is what pinoys call “diskarte”… damn mindset
this happens because pinoys in general have a skewed sense of entitlement, self importance and delusions of grandeur
* law abiding citizens turn to
the darkside because one cannot progress
in this country without breaking a rule her
True….but not a justification….the “dark side” will eventually destroy itself and the nation….
Some of the “honest Filipinos” are blogging in the : Get Real Philippines Website. They are pointing the dysfunction of our society.
Others, got out of the country; became immigrants in other countries; or OFWs. They cannot stand, what these Dishonest Politicians, are doing to their country.
Others remain, as the “Silent Majority”. They watch in dismay…
These Political Leaders think that all Filipinos are gullible. So, they act , as if they are the “Messiahs” for change…
Honest Filipinos here? Really? What’s the basis of being honest?
Just look around, they are like Diamonds in the Pit…there are “honest Filipinos”…they are Rare, and they are there…Don’t be a Paranoid…
The basis, I asked your basis of honesty.
I disagree with you that ‘some honest Filipinos’ blog here. I see emotion-laden criticisms and venting but that is not what honesty means.
Paranoid? Yes, some views expressed here appears to be a product of paranoia and that does not exclude yours. : )
I won’t go as far as Hyden Toro in saying the people in GRP are all honest, nor dishonest.
But really emotion-laden criticisms and venting? Have you read all the articles here? Have you addressed each and every single point and argument made here to boldly make the claim that everything here is emotion-laden criticism and venting? There are more articles here in GRP than your total number of comments, and let me tell you, I haven’t seen you make one reasonable sound argument that disproves any single point made here in GRP. All I see is contrarianism and venting about GRP.
I have not read all the articles that is why I consider those that I’ve read emotion laden and just pure venting. I did not say everything here is emotional and venting simply because I have not read everything. You got it all mixed up again.
Jameboy,
“I disagree with you that ‘some honest Filipinos’ blog here. I see emotion-laden criticisms and venting but that is not what honesty means.”
No I did not get it all mixed up. That’s what you said right there. Don’t be disingenuous. Deny it all you want, that’s what you said. And you have the nerve to preach honesty yet you can’t even admit to what you said.
Jmac,
You are not reading my posts right so you continue to mixed it up with your biased view.
Just look at what you wrote here:
Have you addressed each and every single point and argument made here to boldly make the claim that EVERYTHING HERE is emotion-laden criticism and venting?
I answered that question but you continue to ignore it and insist on your own interpretation of what I said.
I preached honesty? Again, that’s your own interpretation of something that does not exist.
I suggest, you start asking me question to verify and confirm what I really meant. Don’t assume something when you can get the facts from the source.
Happy New Year To Everyone! : )
“Diamonds in the pit”…..Do not agree….I feel that the majority of Filipinos are honest…..just not the “ruling” majority…. you have a feudal system….. with a few lords and millions of serfs….the “lords” have the power….maintain the power….and despite the rhetoric want to retain that power….the inmates are in control of the asylum…. people can only survive by being part of the problem…. fighting corruption only gets you destroyed
Again, you made it look like GRP is nothing but emotion-laden criticism and venting. Your words not mine. I merely stated that observation. Your comments reflect more your words about GRP, not GRP itself.
“I see emotion-laden criticisms and venting but that is not what honesty means.”
So pray-tell your excellency, what is honesty? Is it owning-up to what one has said, which you’re doing a “fine” job at?
Jmac,
I’m not getting the focus of your statement. You keep on quoting my statements and disregarding those details that clarifies and elucidate them. You are actually showing some dishonest act on your part.
Since you asked, honesty, my friend, is not the one you are doing right now. I said something and you twist it to make a case against me. That’s total dishonesty. : (
Jameboy,
So you’re claiming you’re not preaching honesty yet at the same time you’re saying what I’m saying is not honesty, and you are accusing me of dishonesty.
I called you out on your BS based on the very words you yourself used but then you make a complete 360 all the while denying it. You pretend to know honesty better than I do, then I asked you about it, but you failed to make a convincing argument about what honesty is and instead resort to negatives and baseless accusations.
Talk about being disingenuous.
‘…..you are accusing me of dishonesty.’
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No, I’m telling you, for quoting me incorrectly and maliciously, you are dishonest.
Jmac, I know what you want. You want to engage me on an issue you think you know well. Fine, be my guest, but don’t start on a wrong putting by twisting my statements and throwing endless accusations against me.
It’s new year, man, and you’re starting it by being negative. Chill.
Jameboy,
Negative? Haha I had a happy new years celebration and welcomed 2015 brimming with hope and optimism.
I was just calling you out on your BS. You’re being disingenuous and dishonest, by saying one thing and claiming another. Just because it’s a new year does not mean I’m going to bury my head in the sand and pretend all’s full of roses and butterflies.
The struggle against ignorance doesn’t end just because it’s a new year. It ends when it ends. The Philippines will never truly prosper as long as ignorance isn’t dealt with accordingly.
You sound sad, confuse and mad all at the same time.
That’s no way to engage in a discussion. It’s as if you’re always looking for trouble.
Chill, enjoy the new year. Have fun, life is short. 😮
Now you’re judging and attacking my character directly instead of further addressing my arguments.
What a sad loser you are.
I see honesty daily….historically….dishonesty is NOT Filipino…..it is most often a learned traitthe infrastructure is dishonest but the people are culturally inclined to be honest….have been for thousands of years
At home, from an early age, Filipinos are taught not to disagree with their elders even if they are wrong. The education system discourages open and free thinking, especially if it contradicts the teacher. The’group mentality’ of Filipinos means that you often keep quiet if your thoughts contradict that of the majority, so as to not upset the harmony.
People aren’t comfortable to speak out as it breaks the cultural norms.
Agree ako sa disagree with elders subject na niraise mo. Sa atin kasi, yung mas matanda lang ang tama. Kahit tama ang bata tatawagin siyang bastos pag nilaban niya ang katwiran niya. Ang problema sa mga matatanda natin, tumanda sa walang kwentang turo kaya nasasaktan ang ego pag nasasagot ng tama. Instead na ipaliwanag sa anak kung bakit di pwede ang gusto o mali ang paniniwala, ang sasabihin lang ng magulang ay “dahil mas matanda ako sayo.” Tumanda ang mga ninuno natin sa bobong kaugalian kaya gusto nilang ipasa sa atin ang kabobohan.
Makikita din ito sa trabaho. Nagseselos ang mga matatandang employee sa mga baguhang napopromote after 6 months. Hindi nila naisip na baka may magandang contribution yung napromote at hindi dahil loyal siya sa company. Ang nangyayari namemersonal ang matatanda at hindi sinusunod ang batang boss.
There is a bit of inaccuracy in what you said.
It is not really “not to disagree” but to accord respect to elders because we are trained to be respectful to elders. However, we do see in the present generation an effort to express themselves in a manner that the elderly gets to listened to.
@Jameboy
My basis of honesty is what Jesus Christ had taught; also, the Ten Commandments Judeo Christian morality. Especially:”You shall not steal”; “You shall not covet.”,etc…
Frustration sets in for some people. So, you read “emotion laden” criticism and “venting” of anger.
Again, don’t be a paranoid…
So, for you, those ‘honest Filipinos’ who post here don’t steal nor covet, etc.? I think you are not being honest your self.
I mean, pointing at the dysfunction of our society doesn’t make one an honest person. Remember, a lot politicians if not all of them can, off hand, tell you what’s wrong in our society. Are those people honest to you?
Here is a letter from way way back that we featured in the early days. If you look past the challenged English you will see it brilliantly captures the whole problem with over-reverence for the “wisdom” of elders…
Fill article here.
Naku. Tried and tested ko na ito sa family namin. Lagi kaming nagkaclash ng mama ko dahil lang sinasabi ko ang totoo or by simply voicing out an opinion that is different from hers.
When I voice out my opinion or inform them that certain things don’t happen like this or that, my mom always regard that as a sign of disrespect. She tells me ”matalino ka nga, nawawalan ka naman ng respeto sa kin. Sinasagot mo na ako.”
And in my mind, I’m like ”what??! When did telling the truth disrespectful?” tapos pag nagsasalita ako mahinahon pa. Yung tipong nag eeducate.
And then I told her “mama, when I clarify something, it’s not my way of disrespecting you. Makinig ka rin sa opinyon ko para magets mo ang point ko.” And no matter how hard I try to make her understand my point, she will still get hurt over my ”talking back moments. Parang may mahalaga ang act kesa sa meaning ng opinyon ko.
Sometimes, I wish my parents are more open minded than they are today. I wish they treat their children as people who can think for themselves and reason. Minsan kasi it seems selfish na rin, To not let your children voice out their opinion just because they have diff. principles and perspectives. Kasi diba dapat ang mga parents nakikinig talaga? Dapat sila yung number 1 na nakikinig sa mga anak nila eh. Pero kadalasang nangyayari is that parents are regarded as higher beings who sat on a pedestal. Para silang tipong mga hari at reyna na hindi pwedeng salungatin or else your head will be on a spike. Ganung tipo.
It’s kinda sad because my younger siblings cannot even say what they want to say just so they won’t be deemed as disrespectful or whatever labels elders call it. Nakakaloka ang ganung mindset but I have learned my lessons na. I just don’t clarify things. I let them believe what they want to believe.
Nakakapagod rin kasi. Tsaka choice nila yun. Mahirap kasing tulungan ang mga taong ayaw magpatulong.
The older generation is used to autocratic parenthood, which means their word is law – even if they are wrong. Unfortunately, that seems to be the attitude of the many Filipinos whose bad habits we criticize.
True.
Sometimes, I want to say “Thank God” whenever I hear my parents say “Kids these days are too intelligent for their own good”. Kung ano man ibig sabihin nila dun or ano tingin ila sa kabataan ngayon..wala na akong pakialam. I just try to be hopeful because those words can mean kids these days are different from kids from their generation.
Sana.
Not every person of the old generation is like this, I know of very open-minded old people, who themselves pave the way for changes to old ways. But there certainly still are some hard-headed people.
*who sit pala dapat. 😀
Until a hundred million plus Filipinos DO speak out things will stay fucked up in this 17th century (and regressing) country.
Spot on, and add they need to grow up and act like adults instead of a bunch of sulking two year old’s having daily temper tantrums.
Ditch the church and the catholic guilt trip.
@ YAWN, that is right! “YO, STOP packing your bags and going on those %@#DAM guilt trips !”, there I said it. LOL !
Some have already spoken up a few times before, but not for the right reasons and not through the right ways.
What’s the use of an EDSA revolution if the foundations that benefit the few are still in place. I see ningas cogon on a large scale; initiate reforms but without having to make sure it gets thoroughly accomplished.
You can also observe some parents teaching their children the wrong thing. For example, when I was younger, I was eating a snack. My parents told me to just throw the wrapper out the car window, littering. Another example I read in a magazine. A letter writer was asking about her parents saying “sometimes you have to cheat in life, you can’t be honest all the time,” and so she was having a moral dilemma. So you could see why law-breaking Filipinos are still around: it’s passed as a “family value.”
“…when I was younger, I was eating a snack. My parents told me to just throw the wrapper out the car window, littering.”
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Really?!!! Wow!!!!
..Honesty is the most important character trait of a person. It has something to do with integrity, or the totality of a man (and woman). Dishonesty, in whatever form, chips away whatever character there is in a man, and in severe form, could mean the practical disintegration of a man — he would lose respect of himself and thus, would have an anti-social view of society. Integrity has something to do with values, responsibility, priorities, mentality, and attitude.
If we look at some of the most common quirks in a Filipino, we see why honesty is immediately compromised. (a) Filipino time, being late in appointments — most often this is analyzed as lack of responsibility in Pinoys, but see how this is being dishonest with others and with oneself. (b) Failed promises (e.g. our exporters are notorious for not meeting delivery deadlines and are instead known for being creative with excuses, our banks have the highest rate of bad loans, etc) — these are direct attacks on honesty, and see how this is affecting the entire country. (c) Bahala na, total mediocrity — this is not giving the best, it is cheating on the service that should be renderred, and we should be totally shy about this trait and should jump into the Manila Bay or into the Philippine if ever we are accused of this. (d) Pwede na yan and tommorow na lang — again, the same as (c). All these are not just lack of professionalism, they are attacks on honesty.
(e) “Pinoy Pride” — I don’t understand this. Every race, every nation… have individuals that excel, but I don’t see in the Net this or that pride. Isn’t this riding on somebody else achievement, and we are being dishonest with ourselves. (f) Balat Sibuyas — the immediate reaction of Pinoys to any criticism is to repulse it, instead of thinking of the golden opportunity to correct ourselves — again, this is not being honest with oneself. See why our erring officials don’t resign because the flipside of the same coin is being “kapalmuks”
(g) etc, etc. ……….. and we wonder why Pinoys are perceived as being dishonest, without even considering that our three branches of govt are criminal syndicates in and of themselves.
Problem is we take personal responsibility lightly. We have too many mama’s boy in the society, and this not just true in the lower class bracket; in fact the higher you go, there are more mama’s boy in the upper echelon (PNoy?, Mar Roxas?, Jinggoy?, Bong?.. wealthy guys, aren’t they?) But, not taking responsibility is in itself an attack on integrity and consequently on honesty. GRP might want to spend more time unpacking these things. It has wide and direct implications on what priorities are being pursued by the society and individuals, on attitudes, and on mentality, and maybe on the national psyche itself. Maybe, the way to go is to continually attack the honesty of our media, so that they pick up the topic itself (hehehe… now, checking myself if this is a sinister laugh, hehehe…for I have to be conscious about our quirks, hehehe.)
I’d prefer to stick to this slogan I saw in a sign:
Be Honest.
Even if others are not.
Even if others will not.
Even if others cannot.
Agree. Ganyan din sabi ng parents ko, to be always honest and fight for what you believe is right. May dagdag pa sila na wag sasama sa mga nauuto ng gobyerno.
May nakita akong video sa youtube, medyo matagal na pero interesting na maverify ang ‘facts’ na inilagay ng uploader. Pakishare na lang sa mga mahal natin sa buhay na hindi rin naniniwalang bayani at santo sina ninoy at cory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkZobiTuGpg&feature=youtu.be
In the Failippines, sometimes doing the right thing isn’t doing the right thing.
Although doing the wrong thing will never be right.
@Jameboy
Don’t put words on my mouth. Whatever, you understanding and assumption are, depend on your comprehension. If what you can understand is what you can understand. Then, so be it. I wrote what I wrote…people differs in their understanding…
As long as filipinos accept money for votes, you will always have corrupt officials and government. Reject their money and they lose their power over you.
Take the money but vote for the right person.
I can actually understand some motivations for taking the money, such as doing it for the purpose of putting food on the table. Desperation tends to blur the lines of morality.
But take caution as it is not all nice and dandy. Some people take the money just so they can gamble, buy booze or buy drugs or for some other sordid selfish reason. This is the ugly side of the coin the self-styled advocates of the poor often ignore and sidestep.
It’s not about taking the money per se. It’s about voting the person whom you think is the right one.
That is one motivation, out of many other motivations. Simplistic notions of right and wrong may make you feel warm and cozy inside your idealistic worldview, but reality doesn’t always conform.
Some people do it for the money, some do vote for whom they think is the right one to vote. But who’s to say what you think is right is necessarily what the other person thinks is right? You?
Taking economics out of the equation of voting, some people think voting for Erap, or FPJ or Binay is the right decision. So the question is, is it necessarily right to vote for the person whom one thinks is right? Perhaps, in principle. But DO NOT expect it to work out so well, and then complain when it doesn’t.
If you’re going to sing praises to the merits of popular vote, you ought to take all these nuances into account.
The fact is, it doesn’t always work out so well. That’s why the Founding Fathers of the USA generally do not have favorable opinions on democracy. That is why they went on to form a republic, not a mob-rule type of democracy that the Republic of the Philippines is more akin to. They specifically provided for checks and balances to guard against not only the tyranny of one or the few, but also the tyranny of many.
Their system is still not perfect, as you can see. Reality is not so simple, and times change. But it’s better than the watered-down version Filipinos have here. Filipinos modeled their government after the US in form, but not in spirit.
? When you take the bribe and vote according to your better judgment motivation is actually taken out of the equation.
You are not doing it for the money, you are doing it on your own.
Who’s to say who is the right one? Wrong question because there is nothing in the equation anymore (that will influence or dictate to you who to vote for)but your own conscience. Your own judgment. Your own determination.
“You are not doing it for the money, you are doing it on your own.”
Wtf does that even mean? You really are contradicting yourself. The act of taking the bribe may or may not have a selfish motive behind it. Money is a medium, a means.
“Who’s to say who is the right one? Wrong question because there is nothing in the equation anymore (that will influence or dictate to you who to vote for)but your own conscience. Your own judgment. Your own determination.”
Wrong question yet you said your own judgment. The fck? Another self-contradiction? Let me reiterate: the other person voting according to his/her judgment might have a different sort of judgment from yours. Your own judgment nga diba? They have their judgment, you have yours, I have mine. Every person’s is different.
The how in the hell is that a wrong question?
Jmac,
Well, you got it wrong again, as usual.
This is the line I commented on:
“Take the money but vote for the right person.”
There is no ‘other person’ there. It is just the voter and the money given.
Confine your self within that frame when you read what I wrote. Thank you.
Wow you are truly disingenuous aren’t you? Why don’t you scroll back up and take a closer look at who you replied to.
The comment you’re talking about;
“Take the money but vote for the right person.”
was made by Jerry Lynch. I was the one who replied to that comment. Your comment was subbed to my comment. It was actually me you replied to, not Jerry Lynch.
Stop being dishonest and disingenuous.
Hello? I never raise the issue as to whom I replied to. I pointed out to you what statement I replied on.
Read again what I wrote: “This is the line I commented on:
“Take the money but vote for the right person.”
It says, ‘THIS IS THE LINE’ not this is the guy.
Whew! Hanggang ngayon wala ka pa ring score. Zero pa rin.
Why not try arguing in a mature and calm way?
You are accusing me of something you are guilty of. Please.
I’m getting to you aren’t I?
Why keep scores of our debacle? What are you 12 years old? This is not about who scored highest.
This is about calling you out on your BS.
“Read again what I wrote: “This is the line I commented on:
“Take the money but vote for the right person.”
It says, ‘THIS IS THE LINE’ not this is the guy.”
Haha wtf is this? That’s your defense? You sound like a lawyer, or worse, a politician. Even when confronted with strong evidence, they still dance around it and deny guilt.
The evidence is right there. Take a close look at Jerry Lynch’s comment above. Do you see any of your replies there, if there are any reply comments at all subbed to his?
Who exactly wrote the comment above is irrelevant. What’s relevant is that you claimed you replied to that line “Take the money but vote for the right person”, which is blatantly false because you actually replied to MY comment.
Your reply comment is actually subbed to mine. Take a look at it again.
Are you blind or just being deceitful?
Haha wtf is this?
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That’s basically you’re line of thinking here. When confronted with facts all you can say is ?. 🙂
Your reply comment is actually subbed to mine. Take a look at it again.
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:):):) This is becoming ridiculous!
So, what if it’s subbed to yours? It is not YOU that is the issue but the idea.
Don’t look at the sequence of the posts but the idea it addresses and your proceed from there.
Terrible comprehension. 🙁
“That’s basically you’re line of thinking here. When confronted with facts all you can say is ?. ”
That’s not all that I said and you know it. Stop lying. And what facts? You never mentioned any facts, only worthless opinions. Only in your world would your worthless opinions be considered facts. May sarili ka talagang mundo.
“So, what if it’s subbed to yours?”
So you are admitting it. Tama ako diba? I rest my case 😉
Jmac,
Mali ka simply because you do accept explanation. Mali ka for insisting on what you think is there which in reality do not exist. Mali ka for not focusing on the main issue. Mali ka for zigzagging your way every time a fact is presented to you. Mali ka for always on a warpath and ready to rumble when only a simple clarification is needed.
Finally, mali ka for THINKING you can bully your way out of a discussion by being rude, arrogant and a jerk.
I don’t mind debates and arguments, emotional or otherwise, but just be nice.
Cry me a river.
No matter how many times sabihin mong mali ako, hindi magbabago iyong ebidensya na nagpapakita ng kasinungalingan mo.
You said you replied to Jerry Lynch’s comment, “Take the money but vote for the right person.” pero nakasub ang reply comment mo sa comment ko. Dinedeny mo pa din.
Aminin mo na at huwag mo na ibahin ang paksa. Magpakatotoo ka, kahit isang beses lang.
Let me reiterate: the other person voting according to his/her judgment might have a different sort of judgment from yours.- Jmac
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Of course but that is not the point of discussion. The point is the bribery part wherein it was opined that you take the money and vote whom you think is the right one. Jos mio! 🙂
During the last presidential election year I met a woman who had accepted money from 3 different candidates for some office, then she voted for a 4th candidate. If people want to pay for your vote go ahead and take their money. Then vote for whoever you want. I don’t understand why everyone doesn’t just do that already.
Susmaryosep Jameboy. Kung saan saan napupunta itong mga comment mo. Try sticking to our thread, and avoid taking a cheap shot at me from some other place.
Jerry Lynch,
Actually, if I remember correctly, Cardinal Sin was the one who said, take the money but vote for your conscience or something to that effect. But I think, those who buy votes has a way of knowing whether you voted as agreed upon or not.
How would any candidate know if you voted for him or not? Voting is in secret.
Jameboy must be implying that candidates must be mind-readers, or telepathic.
How would any candidate know if you voted for him or not? Voting is in secret.
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Yes but there are ways to find it out. For example, if you want to know if a person voted for you, have him video himself writing your names on the ballot. Also candidates have armies of followers who are in charge of vote-buying. They are responsible if something goes wrong in their area of operation. So, they’ll do everything they can to make sure there would be no vote-switching.
*citation needed*
It goes beyond “money”….it is “utong na loob” (sp?) …..part of the culture….. Filipinos are very passionate people….with strong feelings….strong sense of obligation / loyalty …..as to voting for the wrong person or for the wrong reason….that is not ONLY a Filipino flaw….look at America….the feminist organization NOW supported Bill Clinton..twice…he was the poster boy for EVERYTHING they hate about men….????
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-28953147
STUDENT WORK: LOGICAL FALLACY POSTERS
Hi Add, if you will be posting long URL links, could you please use the appropriate HTML tags so that the link appears as titled hypertext rather than a raw URL string.
Also, we prefer that you add your own context/insight to the link you provide rather than just post the link alone. We are inclined to regard as spam comments that contain nothing else but a link.
Thanks.
Noted… will do next time.
Thanks, man, and a Prosperous New Year to all of you in GRP. Continue the good job your doing for PHL.
Thanks! Happy New Year to you too! 🙂
Mga Pilipino, puro defensive. When trying to counter criticisms, however truthful, they truly make a FOOL of themselves.
Kasi puro ka offensive as in offensive. What do you expect, for Filipinos to swallow hook, line and sinker all the lies and malice and hate you spew?
When you criticize don’t just criticize because you feel good doing it. It’s evil. You know what’s not evil, criticize and allow the other side to defend against your criticism if they can. It’s also manly.
What’s evil is ignoring all the travesty, moral degradation and corruption all around you, while pretending everything is ok.
Filipinos love to celebrate and be happy, even when there’s street kids 10 feet away from them begging and sniffing glue.
But then again, ignorance is bliss in the Land of It’s More Fun ain’t it?
Judging me and my character (I’m criticizing because I feel good doing it? False.) isn’t going to do wonders for you.
“…allow the other side to defend against your criticism if they can”
I see less defense and more defensiveness. If you can discern the psychological meaning of the latter from the literal meaning of the former, good. That’s a start, because that’s what you and like-minded Pinoys are suffering from.
What’s evil is ignoring all the travesty, moral degradation and corruption all around you, while pretending everything is ok.
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Who’s ignoring what? You think people like to live in ‘travesty, moral degradation and corruption’?
Let me see, aside from doing sermon from the pulpit what are you trying to do to help alleviate or solve the problem? I mean, saliva has not been known to remedy social ill.
The very easy thing to do, again, very easy thing to do is to criticize, insult, disparage and spread hate. Anybody and I mean anybody can do that and can be expert on that. But that is not what we want these days. We want people who will go past beyond whining, complaining and blabbing. We want ideas, not ridicule, on how to confront problems. We want inspiration not doom and frustration to make our countrymen hopeful inspite of the dire situation they are in. We want people who will spread positive and hope and inspiration and not the wise guys, conceited and the know-it-all wannabes.
Ah so you assumed that I’m not doing nor I haven’t done anything to help people?
Haha hindi ko ipopost ang CV ko dito para lang sa katulad mo, pero hindi ko din kailangan pagmayabang ang mga experiences ko at ang mga ginawa ko para makatulong sa mga nangangailangan.
Hindi ako magsasalita ng ganito if I’m just full of hot air, unlike you.
Not only are you an idiot, you are also a pompous narrowminded judgmental ass.
You don’t know me jamegirl, so don’t make assumptions about my character and make a fool of yourself.
Who accepts their own mistake? Most of the time when we’re on a debate or fight and we know we’re on the wrong side,aren’t so hard to concede even if you really know deep inside you that your the one unreasonable. Same in the government, no one stood up and took responsibility in every controversies their involved with. Every one is perfect there. And also, your honesty has a price now. “Tell the truth and your dead!”