Aren’t there enough Filipino men in the country good enough for some Filipino women (Filipinas)? As far as I know, there is no shortage of Filipino men and I haven’t heard of any reports that say there is an imbalance in the sex ratio that would compel some Filipinas to seek men from overseas either. But what could be forcing some Filipinas to look for partners from foreign lands? I’m sure the reason is not just limited to financial aspects because I know a lot of successful professional Filipinas with their own money who are also married to foreign men. It would be wrong then for others to assume that these women only married for money.
A bowerbird and his bachelor pad
Yes, there are Filipinas, those who belong to the lower end of the socio-economic classes who view men from first world countries as a “good catch” because of the superiority of the currency these men have in their bank accounts. But to be sure, there are also some foreign men who come to the Philippines to take advantage of naive Filipinas. Unfortunately, Filipinas seem to have acquired a reputation for being heartbreakers and gold diggers among single foreign men who are seeking true love in Asia.
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Even Jasmine Lee, a Filipina who married a South Korean national and then became the first naturalized Korean to become a lawmaker in South Korea, is said to have become a target of “racist” and “xenophobic” attacks on the Internet. Reports have surfaced stating that some Korean Netizens are reacting negatively to her new post with someone Tweeting: “Following the immigrant wife Lee’s entry to the Assembly, we can well predict the rise of unregistered foreigners and foreign women marrying in return for money. We’ll see the truth of multiculturalism that exploits Koreans.” It is unfortunate that the Filipina’s reputation has been tainted to the point of affecting even highly-educated and professional women like Lee.
I recently read a post from a site called HubPages written by someone who was obviously very bitter about his own experience with Filipinas. His primary reason for writing the article is to warn other foreign men from getting involved with women from the Philippines. Although I was disappointed to read his article, I can’t blame him for his generalization because I’ve heard a lot of anecdotal and actual reports around that seem to validate the writer’s views. I heard, for example, that Internet Cafes are swarming with Filipinas chatting up western men online. This is part of the dire post from the site:
Pinays’ most common goal is to make Americans fall in love with them and have the men marry and bring them to the United States for good, where they will settle down and enjoy the good life that the country offers. When they succeed, they will continue to stick with their men for a little longer until they obtain their alien registration card(green card). Upon obtaining this precious green card, they will abandon their men and look for the ones they really like. Infuriating huh? Due to this, Pinays can be considered to be opportunistics, who use their wits to continuously take advantage of the men who really believe they’re not being loved for their money.
Indeed, for many foreign nationals, the road to matrimony is fraught with difficulties especially when they are dealing with someone they barely know from a culture that is totally alien to their own. And this dilemma is not just limited to Filipinas. Anyone experiencing hardship in their own country will turn up their survival instincts and resort to all kinds of things just to get a ticket out of their misery. This phenomenon is not exclusive to Filipinos. Russian brides, anyone? Who can forget Nicole Kidman’s role in the film Birthday Girl as a Russian mail-order bride to a British guy. Nicole’s character accentuated the reputation of the typical Russian women from poor backgrounds who do whatever it takes to get out of their wretched existence. In the film, it turns out that the Russian mail-order bride is just a front for a crook to extort money from unsuspecting men.
I do feel sorry for men who get lured into a relationship by women who just want to scam money out of them. But hey, men do it to women too. Sometimes desperation can quickly turn anyone into a calloused con artist. However, as they say, it takes two to tango. A wise man would suss out the real situation first before getting involved with someone. Anyone can try to pull a fast one but it is likely the fool who falls victim to a predator.
Anyway, I strongly suggest that those who are feeling sorry that they got duped should also take a bit of personal responsibility for their own mistake. They don’t have to continue feeling bitter about their experience. They just need to move on. Even Marvin Gaye admitted that everybody plays the fool. The novelist Jane Austen also wrote about being a fool for love. For those who are not familiar with the novel or the film adaptation of her highly celebrated book, Pride and Prejudice, here are some of her most famous opening lines:
IT is a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of a wife.
However little known the feelings or views of such a man may be on his first entering a neighborhood, this truth is so well fixed in the minds of the surrounding families, that he is considered as the rightful property of some one or other of their daughters.
Jane Austen may have written those classic lines in the 19th century but her message rings true to this day. Other writers may put in their own little twist or nuance when they tackle romantic love stories, but most of them still work around the same premise of Austen’s storyline. For whether one acknowledges it or not, a man who is loaded with cash, property or stocks makes himself a magnet for all kinds of rackets, many of them coming in the guise of true love — which is why it is still better to use other means of attracting a partner as alternatives to waving money around. If a man chooses to use his fortune to secure a partner, he should be prepared to accept that he will likely to have been chosen solely for his money alone.
Who wouldn’t want their own Fitzwilliam Darcy or “Mr. Darcy”? Even if you overlook his character in Austen’s novel being a single good-looking man in possession of a good fortune; he oozes with sex appeal nonetheless. His appeal it seems has less to do with his good looks and his fortune, and more to do with the air of authority others feel when he enters the room. This is also true in real life. Sometimes when a person walks around looking unimpressed or aloof; people find that person more intriguing and more fascinating.
This is not to suggest that we should favor someone with a snotty disposition; it’s about being selective about the kind of people who you want to deal with. After all, who wants to waste their time engaging in shallow conversations about petty and trivial pursuits? In other words, it’s about having substance. And people who have substance can spot someone who has substance a mile a way. In Austen’s book, it was ultimately substance that helped Mr. Darcy overcome his prejudice and fall for someone below his class standing in society, Ms. Elizabeth Bennet. And despite his wealth, it was substance that helped Elizabeth overcome her own pride and fall for Mr. Darcy.
In the animal kingdom, the art of attracting a mate is not too different from that applied by humans. One of Sir David Frederick Attenborough’s documentaries on his Life series shows how the male bowerbird uses its decorating skills to show-off by creating some kind of “bachelor pad” in its effort to attract a partner:
To attract a partner, the male bowerbird builds and decorates an elaborate nest, which can take weeks to assemble. The bower — a structure woven around a sapling that looks almost like a wooden tent — is carpeted with moss and decorated with flowers, colorful insects, fungi or even dung depending on each bird’s design sensibilities.
While the bowerbird may go through a lot of trouble to make himself presentable to a female, this doesn’t necessarily mean that all of his time and effort will pay off. Other males generally construct bowers nearby, and their sense of style and song may be more along the lines of what a female bowerbird is looking for.
It is interesting to note that all that effort to show-off has an evolutionary purpose. The female would naturally choose someone who she thinks has the most attractive or the strongest characteristics. This is applying the assumption that someone who possesses the better characteristics will likely pass on the genes that produce them. More importantly, individuals who exhibit those characteristics are likely to possess the fitness and strength that make them superior carers for their offspring. So therefore, women who go for men who seem to possess strong characteristics should not be frowned upon. Women merely act on preferences honed by evolution to instinctively look out for their welfare and the welfare of their future family.
[Photo courtesy PinoyExchange.com.]
Going back to Filipino men, what therefore makes some of them so unappealing could be the fact that they are not raised to be real men. They come across as deficient in testosterone on account of the way they just drink and hang around instead of work hard to give their family a decent life. Some of them just let their wives do all the work, which could mean going overseas to work as domestic helpers while their husbands spend what little money they have on vices. This could have something to do with an undiagnosed narcissistic disorder afflicting a lot of Filipino men. Indeed, it was global media outlet CNN International that concluded that Filipino men are the most narcissistic in Asia. An inflated sense of self-importance and an extreme preoccupation with themselves could be the reason why more and more Filipinas are seeking partners overseas.
In life, things are not always what they seem.
This also demonstrates that the Filipino machismo culture is flawed and filled with vice. Perhaps it’s one reason there’s so much poverty in the Philippines and the country can’t move forward.
I am married here and I can say that I have found that foreign men who get burned are asking for it!! I cannot talk for everyone but I know I would not trade my wife for ten American women!! Yes I am American! I could go on and on about this but whats the use
That’s nice to know, Bill.
Hahahahaha yes I do laundry too
@ChinoF
It is part of the reason why the country remains Asia’s laggard. I find it strange that some men do not have the motivation to work for anyone, not even themselves.
I learned the answer to this question yesterday! I intervened when my neighbor was beating his wife He drinks all day while she works by the way! The authorities finally came and told me to mind my own business as I was a foreigner!! I see this a lot here in Manila! Anyway nothing was done about it, sooooooo there is the answer to your question!!
i knew many OFW’s in the middle east and a lot got raped by their boss.
when i asked why they did not leave they nearly always said they were still better treated than by their husband, and filipino men not very satisfying.
That’s just sad.
More than likely, the cops have the same mentality as the husband. And policemen in the Philippines have the reputation for having mistresses on the side.
They are probably the same people who would cry-foul when someone says “it’s not your business because you are Filipino”.
Move to Davao, Bill! That kind of shit won’t fly here.
In the USA and I guess in most part of Europe the women are considered to be more emotional and the men rational. In the Philippines it’s reversed: the women are more rational and the men are emotional.
I heartily agree with this. Finding a filipino man with a good sense in his head is really hard.
True
There is something that does not add up in Hubpages’ meanderings about an opportunistic Filipino women.
When you marry an American you don’t need an alien registration card (green card). You become automatic American citizen by marriage. A different paper work is filled-up. If this bitter guy was jettisoned for someone the Pinay really likes, then he was trashed because he was not loved despite his money. That does sound “opportunistic” to you? Pinays would do that even with their Pinoy husbands.
How about also Americans who prefer Pinays for their wives knowing that they are dedicated and would stand by their husbands and woul even be willing to act as their glorified maids? —
Tinanong ko si Pehong kung bakit mga ‘Merkano mahilig sa Penay meskina ang agwat e April – December. Sabi ni Pehong, “Kasi m’ga Penays matamis na magaling pang mag kareoke, asus!”
Sir, technically it isn’t automatic but it speeds up the process. You still have to go through the naturalization process if you marry an American.
may kasama akong amerkano na nagasawa ng batang pinay tuwing pasko nagpapadala ang amerkano ng pera sa magulang ng pinay .matanda na ang amerkano siguro hindi na nakapag sesex kaya kinaliwa at sumama sa pinoy na bata pagkaraan ng 6 month bumalik sa amerkano tinanggap naman pero umalis uli kaya dinevorse na sya ng amercano..dalawa ang kasama kong amerkano na devorse na .ngayon masama ang trato sa akin ng kano..gusto ng pinay ay puti dahil sa malaki ang ari at gusto nilang magkaroon ng magandang anak tingnan ninyo ang mga artista karamihan ay anak ng puti ang ina ay ang papanget.
so true. But hey, at least the foreign husband can provide financially, right? That’s still better than being married to a bum who doesn’t even help around the house.
You do not automatically become an American citizen if you marry an American.
There are young Filipino women, who want to marry men , who are 3 Ms…not the U.S. based corporation, but, men who are: “Matanda”, “Mayaman” at “Madaling Mamatay”. How many times I’ve seen women dating men, old enough to be their Grandfathers…these men are retirees or “pensiyonados”. Wala nang hiya-hiya, kung Bulsa ang o-obra…It will always be in the mindsets of Filipino women, that living abroad is easy. Nothing can be further from the truth. You have to struggle double hard, because you are a minority…
I was reading your comment and what came to mind was that deceased American former Playboy playmate/actress, Anna Nicole Smith who married a wealthy old man on a wheelchair. This practice of seeking a husband with the three MMMs is not exclusive to Filipinas, indeed.
Many of the Filipinas I know of here in America are very successful and doing quite well.
no wonder, the filipina president ate noy is looking to marry a korean national…
LOL
Ah, The Arts! -“Imitates Life.” Then there is Darwin, followed by MassMedia’s implicits. The battle of the sexes is nothing new, the end-game is often concession to whom benefits are largely to the players themselves. Do not play it if you can not stand the heat, it has consequences -the stupid zero-sum madness. I prefer a joint-venture/inc: Parity…. 😉
It’s not for the faint hearted, I suppose.
“Women merely act on preferences honed by evolution to instinctively look out for their welfare and the welfare of their future family.”
Very well said for a RC country where evolution doesnt exist. Or is it just Darwin’s “survival of the fittest”?
Western women today dont have kids as their main top priority anymore but they prioritize their working career which gives them more subtance then having kids.
Think of the Jane Fondas’ (when she kicks the bucket she is still mad at men)of today so self absorved -so clinical automation thus clone. Nah! Manual operations -creation- is much more fun and healthier too.
Yes, that is true too. People will remain clueless as long as they refuse to accept how nature works.
I think there should be balance. Women can’t have everything. Our bodies are designed for something else, which is why women have to take a less stressful job if they want to have kids.
“I think there should be balance. Women can’t have everything. Our bodies are designed for something else, which is why women have to take a less stressful job if they want to have kids.”
Ilda, I am sure you are not serious about this; about a less stressful job. That would mean that no female CEO (or a female in higher management) can bear a child bec of her stressful job. What is a not stressful job? Being a full time house wife?
(Wednesday 18 april 2012 at 08.38AM)
Hi Robert
The operative word is “if”. As in “if a woman wants to have kids she should get a less stressful job”. An example of a less stressful job would be in administration or back office support.
Superb article, Ilda. Definitely thought provoking.
“Even Jasmine Lee, a Filipina who married a South Korean national and then became the first naturalized Korean to become a lawmaker in South Korea ”
It is not possible for an American who marries a Filipino to become a naturalized Filipino and become a lawmaker in the Philippines. Also, the Philippines seems to accept dual citizenship reluctantly, believing that if a Filipino has accepted citizenship abroad, he/she becomes a security risk to the Philippines at home. The old “you are either for me or against me” argument at a national level. Or the “no divorce” rule applied to citizenship: you are with me for life, or else . . .
“Anyway, I strongly suggest that those who are feeling sorry that they got duped should also take a bit of personal responsibility for their own mistake. They don’t have to continue feeling bitter about their experience. They just need to move on. ”
That is good advice for anyone in any relationship. Most of the time we dupe ourselves with unrealistic expectations, and that is the main problem.
I am currently re-reading that old Michener classic “Hawaii”. The white Christian missionaries who fought native Hawaiian culture grew bitter at their failures to convert the heathens to their better way of thinking. The missionaries who applied God’s lessons to that culture without condemning it, were both successful and happy. I think cross-cultural relationships are a lot like that. Both people have to give acceptance, not demand change. Filipino and western cultures are different, but they don’t have to be incompatible.
Why thank you, Mr America.
I do believe it is now possible to have dual citizenship. You just have to pay a fee.
Yes, it would be stupid for some to fall head over heels with someone they just met online.
I’ll put that book on my list. Sounds interesting.
It’s 1,000 pages, and often tedious. But, hey, have a good time!
See, a phony praise from Maher boy aka Joe America
“Superb article, Ilda. Definitely thought provoking.”
Then his signature clincher, interjecting himself –
“I am currently re-reading that old Michener classic “Hawaiiâ€. The white Christian missionaries who fought native Hawaiian culture grew bitter at their failures to convert the heathens to their better way of thinking. Bla blah blah..”
His comments are all about himself.
You have the utmost of arrogance to try to take my praise from Ilda, when I meant it. Fortunately, I am confident she is of bigger heart than you, and gets it, that an argument one place does not mean an argument every place.
And leave it up to a twit of your character to knock someone who takes pride in his reading, and wishes to share a lesson learned. As if being unread is something to aspire toward.
Finally, leave it to you to once again take a fine thread and throw dirt on it.
Hey, Maher boy aka Joe America, fall in line. For you to argue with me is by appointment. I’m recipcrating your policy.
My comment is addressed to the comment readers and not to you.
Go get a life.
It’s glaring in the last paragraph that his comment is about him and not about praising the post author.
“I am currently re-reading that old Michener classic “Hawaiiâ€. The white Christian missionaries who fought native Hawaiian culture grew bitter at their failures to convert the heathens to their better way of thinking. The missionaries who applied God’s lessons to that culture without condemning it, were both successful and happy. I think cross-cultural relationships are a lot like that. Both people have to give acceptance, not demand change. Filipino and western cultures are different, but they don’t have to be incompatible.”
So what! He wants us to know what he’s reading and his reading prowess.
And still, he has have the unmitigated effrontery to follow it up with another comment with what? About himself again – his endurement in reading that book while having a good time.
“It’s 1,000 pages, and often tedious. But, hey, have a good time!
Jeez…He’s not sharing it with us. He’s bragging his reading prowess.
This dud can’t fool me with his dishonesties and misinformation disguised in civil phraseology.
Or maybe this dud is reengineering himself. A lot of phony praises coming from him lately…
I won’t hold my breath.
You could be right, Trosp. I think he is trying to be “the new Joe America.” We’re on to him.
sorry, guys (trosp & dude), but i’m not with you on this one. i’ve always made it a point to only challenge joe’s claims that could not be substantiated/backed up or are downright false, but when he has a fairly pleasant exchange with others where nothing truly misleading is given real estate, i let it go without reaction. i don’t trust joe at all, but i’ve learned i need not be on his case that way all the time.
@joe: i am not defending you, just to be clear. realize that how others treat you is based on how you’ve behaved, simple as that.
parallalax, and I’ve always said you are smart whereas others lack your grander sense of perspective.
Parallax, I wish I could agree with you, but this Maher boy aka Joe America is always whining –
“You join the gang of courtesy-deficient thugs to talk ABOUT me instead of to me!â€
And in almost all of his comments, it’s all about himself, if not about his dishonesties and misinformation spins.
Read his comments in this post to validate.
At any rate, it’s your call and it’s not a bad one.
@Trosp
You are right about Joe. He recently wrote against GRP again. He even said in the comment section of his blog:
Ulol pala itong lolong ito eh. He’s been praising the writers here but saying a different thing on his blogsite for the sake of his audience who are all pro-PNoy. He’s a hypocrite.
Rational readers of GRP would know by now that this site is full of solutions. Some people are just too caught up in their own narrow view of what is good and evil, which is why they cannot accept the alternatives.
Dude, there are times, and I would say, most of the time, arguing in blog is not for the faint heart.
This Maher boy aka Joe America would like to take the short-cut.
@trosp: we’re all on to joe america’s two-facedness. it doesn’t mean we’re promoting absolute intolerance of the likes of him. perhaps today you have the energy to keep trailing him and warning everyone wherever he goes of what he really is, but eventually you’ll have to conserve your limited time and energy and devote your time spent here focused on ideas first, characters second. this is how we are different from joe america.
he is no good at defending his own ideas (specif. when discussing his idol) without using all the wrong modes of perceiving reality. THAT is what we’re supposed to shoot down first; succeeding in doing that basically discredits him, which should be enough. no need to form a group against him, no need to highlight (or merely cite) his blog which is an utter waste of time really, no need to give him the kind of importance you’re unwittingly giving him by going after him when he’s just exchanging harmless banter with others.
Lol whining as opposed to you right now. Ironic. Maybe you’re the one who should get a life since you’re the one who has more and longer comments.
Well, at least Covid exposed Duterte.
LOL
My FB is Bill Steffen Friend me and you can see stuff there that will show you that Joe America and Robert the dutchman are feeding you all bull This is for everyone on Get Real! yes thats my real name
Thanks for the heads-up Bill. It seems this Joe America is a fake. He could be a paid hack. He tries to discredit GRP writers all the time because of their criticism of PNoy, his idol.
1. Lure a foreigner (American etc) into a one-night stand.
2. Claim you were violated the next day and enlist the assistance of “nationalist” groups.
3. ???
4. Profit
Sounds like someone who filed a case against that American military guy. She’s now in the US.
Very nice read, ma’am.
Hans Landa in Inglourious Basters said “What tremendous feats human beings are capable of once they abandon dignity.”
Sad when you think about it, really. In a country where women are so easily objectified and victimized, that women have to resort to this.
I hope this is a wake-up call to for men to man the F up.
Hi AK
Thank you for reading it. Actually, I am very pleased that a lot of men get my point. I was half expecting to be stoned. 😉
A lot of Filipinas seek a better life with a man they hardly know even if it means making a sacrifice because the alternative for them is worst. Until our country-men shape up, we will see more Filipinas resort to this.
There aren’t too many interesting filipino guys in the philippines, sad to say. They’re either really wimps or really into this stupid machismo bull. Seeing girly men on TV only confirms my bad view on our own men. Wish for a guy like my dad *wink*…apologies if I come off really sexist. Just my opinion that’s all.
I hear ya, girl.
I love a man with conviction. A lot of Filipino men can’t think without consulting their family. I hate that.
Ilda,
“A lot of Filipino men can’t think without consulting their family. I hate that.”
He he he…
I’ve just erased my comment after rereading your comment.
Kapag bigla mong binasa, iba ang dating.
What I’ll comment is I’m the head of the family and I’m supposed to do the thinking on matters of major decision.
But, still, I have an obligation to tell them what I’ll do and that is the time I’ll listen to their POVs.
A different one from asking them how you will do it while your plan is in a contemplation stage.
Perhaps if it involves family matters like family business or property under everyone’s name, it makes sense to consult family members. It’s totally different when they still have a say in your relationship with your wife or your personal issues.
BTW: can this story be supported by official statistics saying that since the year 2000 more and more Filipinas are moving abroad because of a relationship with a foreigner? And does that statistic also reveal that the (only) reason/cause for that migration is bec of lack of “real” Filipino guys? And if this migration already is a trend or will become a trend then the country is up for a shortage of women very shortly. So more Filipino guys will stay unmarried or at least without a woman to date & court and what not. That looks like a grim future to me.
Or are we just talking at a handfull of women who are leaving the country?
Good questions. My wife is Filipina and prefers that we stay in the Philippines, which I also wish to do. We will travel to the U.S. now and then and return to our permanent home here. So I add one question to those you ask. How many Filipinas go to the U.S., perhaps without enthusiasm, because their husbands do not wish to reside permanently in the Philippines?
Come on Joe,
USA is not the only country on this planet Filipinas move to. From what I understand (by listening to my partner and just by observing the Philippine country, Philippine traits and culture) is that the Netherlands is far more free – in laws and in culture.
The only question is: can a pinay handle so much freedom?
Robert,
Out of topic, but I’ve worked with both Dutch and American counterparts in my previous work. And I must say, the level of frankness that our Dutch counterparts displayed made the American counterparts cringe.
@Dyed Moroz,
Off topic answer: yes, we Dutch are straight forward, frank, direct, (mostly) honest, not so shallow as Americans tend to be or can be. We are also less family-oriented, we are (more) self-sufficient, independent.
Robert, yes, of course you are right. Biliran where I live is very popular with the Dutch. My point was more on the perspective of Filipinas. We presume that they go to the States for the rich happy life. Maybe it is the guys who want to go back home and the Filipinas go because they have to, to keep their other benefits. It is a question. I have no idea as to the answer.
Gadzooks. Or to Holland, or Australia, or wherever. Sorry.
I don’t usually agree with you but in this case you are right! My wife feels the same, so do I, and we do the same thing
Can you share with us the link to that report? I have not heard of that one. If has certainly become acceptable to seek a partner from overseas.
Ilda,
Quite a few of my female friends say that the concept of gentlemanly conduct is lost upon many Filipino men. We don’t even have to talk about chivalry; common courtesies such as holding the door open for women, letting them enter a room or door first, helping your date sit down, they tell me, are not very common here.
Regardless of whether the guy is mister gotbucks or not, his breeding is more important, is it not? I get the impression that many overseas men are in general more courteous and gentlemanly than many Filipino men.
There’s something very contradictory about our culture. We consider men who hit women bakla(gay, unmanly), but somehow men are empowered in our society to treat women like objects or doormats.
I guess, then, you could say, that looking for real men from overseas is a sort of escape from having to deal with the local neanderthals.
By the way Ilda, maybe you can do some sort of follow-up to this:
“Why the Filipina appears attractive to the overseas man.”
The same reason any girl is attractive to a man. Legs and brains and personality that fits. I’m reminded of the line from “Six Days and Seven Nights”, as a drunken character played by Harrison Ford expounds to a snobby character played by Anne Hesch, “Ya wanna know how to get a guy horny?” Pause for curious look from Ms. Hesch. “Just show up.”
A woman’s perspective is still most likely different, Joe.
Ask a man to write about it and the gist will be something like this: “Men are visual, carnal creatures, period.”
Ahhhh, yes, I see your point. Thanks.
@FallenAngel
That article would involve interviewing foreigners who are into Filipinas. And I don’t think it’s just Filipinas per se. I think some just prefer Asian women in general. 😉
How about personal hygiene?
I just don’t want to go in details. Most oversea males I’ve known are kinky.
And I know how most of oversea females maintain their personal hygiene.
Just my $0.02.
It’s only one factor among many, I’m sure. And perhaps not even as big a deal to foreigners as it is with us Filipinos.
@Trosp,
Pls elaborate. What do you mean by kinky?
I can only speak on my own behalf but Dutch males do their daily hygiene but compared to Filipinos we use toilet paper after visiting the toilet/bathroom/c.r. and not clean our asses with water and making the toilet/bathroom a mess. Or we will use a bidet and the bathroom will still look crispy fine afterwards.
Hi Robert,
First I’m referring to oversea males I’ve known. The kinky thing is something one see between two consenting adults in a mild blue movies.
I could be wrong of course if we’re going to generalize it.
Damn bro, I can’t believe you actually said that
Bill, no other way but to say I mean. One of the times I’m saying it as my pure opinion.
@FallenAngel
I still prefer a man who opens doors for a woman. You’ll find that these little things can still impress most women. Don’t get me wrong, I am grateful for the achievements of the feminist movement throughout the years but I sometimes think that they go too far. I believe that we women need to accept that whether we like it or not, our bodies have a different function to men’s. We have more moving parts for one. And I think our outlook in life changes depending on the dictates of our hormones. We could be career orientated today but could want 3 kids in 10 years time. Some women I know panic when they realise that their biological clock is ticking but they haven’t even found a partner to have kids with.
Welcome to the land of contradiction. I think it has something to do with our exposure to western culture. Most Filipinos are raised the traditional way but then see another, more daring type of behaviour on television shows and movies. The Filipino way of life gets kinda convoluted because of the mixed messages we get from the media combined with most people’s backward thinking.
@FallenAngel,
If all you say is true (and I dont doubt you) then something went wrong during the raising/upbringing of those guys. So why didnt their parents do a better job? Or why werent those guys corrected in their mal behavior (by their surroundings)?
Robert,
I wish it were simple an issue like negligence, but it is not.
The parents could only pass on values which they were familiar, or grew up, with. If you’re a Filipino, and your parents were born here before the 1970s-1980s then chances are their upbringing was very traditional and conservative.
If you have been to other Asian countries you will find that what I called courtesies to women are actually alien to them. One educated guess is that most other Asian cultures have heavy Chinese and/or Indian influence, and in both of these cultures the role of the female is well-defined as subordinate to the male. The Philippines is one of those societies, the Chinese influence is much stronger here than Indian, though.
In fact, the more conservative and traditional parts of those Asian societies still believe that “women should stay in the kitchen” or they “should stay home and make babies”.
The concepts of chivalry, and the feminist movement which Ilda mentioned, are primarily Western ideas. Philippine society, in particular, for all its Westernization of thought, has been slow to adopt, and to adapt to its own situation, the things that make sense. So correction by surroundings isn’t exactly going to happen here either. Filipinos are trapped between their more traditional conservative upbringing, where the role of the woman is defined as caretaker of home and family (working women were unimaginable back then), and the more liberal ideas they see when get exposed to Western culture.
An aggravating circumstance, I think, is the influence of the Roman Catholic Church. Do I have to go into detail as to how averse these guys are to equal, much less chivalrous, treatment of women? Combine that with the machismo and backward thinking of Filipinos, and you have a submissive mix.
Like I said above, perhaps looking for men from overseas is an escape for Filipinas from having to deal with local neanderthals. I can imagine that many of them felt that being put on a pedestal and being treated/respected as an equal, by Western men, were refreshing.
@FallenAngel,
So what you are saying is, is that its almost impossible to transcend from that “culture” from within (the Philippines)?
If one wants to transcend from that “culture” he/she will probably be looked at as an “outcast” almost. And who wants to be(come) an outcast in ones own country? It needs a lot of gutz. Then all I wonder is how would those pinays that are looking for a partner abroad may survive? Arent they all in for a culture shock? A clash of cultures? My partner tells me she will bloom and flourish 10 times more and better when she is in my country. I hope she realizes that my people can be dammed harsh in criticism. I hope she can eat and swallow it (the harsh but constructive criticism, I mean).
I very much appreciate your elaborate explanation.
The only Asian country I have visited (so far) are the Philippines. Although I know a bit about Thailand but nothing compared to what I know (or think I know) about the Philippines.
Because of their religion, most Thais would be less timid about certain things compared to Filipinas. But their English would be less competent compared to ours.
If I may interject a comment in this interesting exchange. As FA says, this is very complex. The Philippines had a woman president, whereas the States has not (sorry Robert, for the obsession with the States; in the best of American self-absorption, I know nothing about Holland). My wife went from submissive to standing up to the Barangay Captain and others in three years.
I think the Church and the Department of Education are responsible for holding women back. The Filipinas I know overseas adapt well. So it isn’t a matter of this “submissiveness” being a block of stone.
Also, power is the main dynamic between males, too. If you have it, you use it. Sometimes ruthlessly. In writing that, I’m thinking maybe gender has little to do with submissiveness of women here. It is all just power.
@Joe America,
I dont blame you for knowing nothing about the Netherlands. The Netherlands is a tiny, small country and not a big player on the global fields. Although it gets a lot of criticism for its liberal ideas and laws about soft-drugs. I am not proud to be dutch but I am glad and happy I was born here compared to many other (even western) countries.
I myself visited the States 3 times on 3 different occassions (last time summer 2005) and I enjoyed each minute of it. Especially New York and San Francisco. Las Vegas is kitch and Los Angeles is an anonymous city.
Before I “met” my Phili partner (May 2010) I knew nothing about Phili. At most I had heard about Manila and that was about it. But since we got more serious about the relationship I started digging and searching for general and specific info re Phili. In all honesty I must say I do get surprised and shocked still when I hear new stuff (yes you may call me naive and ignorant). The last shocker was the viewpoint, rule and/or regulations of DepEd that a new hired teacher is not allowed to be “living together”(unmarried). I would think the new employee should be the best (or good, at least) even if s/he is gay/lesbian or bi-sexual. Probably and seemingly DepEd goes for mediocracy as long as the new employee is married or single, which is not in the best interest for the pupil/student, I believe.
Back to Phili traits:
I am sure they have to adjust abroad but do they really? Especially when living in big cities they are no-ones. They can still behave as a Pinay (including all the traditional Phili folklore) and noone will notice it. What I’ve learned from most Pinays who are living here and married to Dutch guys, they still lead a simple live and will only spend their holidays back in their home country (that is what I call shallow.) The Pinays here have low paid or no jobs. So actually I am a bit surprised when I hear Ilda say that Pinays go for substance. What does the Pinay have to offer in that aspect?
If you want me to have substance then pls offer substance as well. Return the favour, Reciprocate and equalise. Otherwise what is the common ground and foundation? The physical attraction only?
Robert,
Yes, almost impossible, but not zero. Many of the younger people I know are now beginning to see things in a more “enlightened” manner.
The culture shock is inevitable, but Filipinos/Filipinas, with their familiarity with Western ways compared to other Asian cultures, quickly adapt. Your partner verifies the idea that the pervading culture here is like a set of shackles that prevents people from realizing their true worth and potential. Filipino society is still very stratified and rigid that people who do not fit into certain pre-defined roles are ostracized.
One surprisingly inextinguishable but suppressed trait of Filipinos is that they can be rather frank too. In the vernacular we call it “prangka”. We just aren’t that by default because saving face is the prevailing norm. I know many people who can be frank, and even among my generation there are many who have little tolerance for BS and beating around the bush. Maybe this is something we indirectly gained from Westerners.
Joe’s wife, as he mentioned below, is an example of yet another Filipino trait that comes out in cracks: if you push a Filipino/a too far, they fight back.
Ilda. This is the link to the NSO data on Marriages by Nationality of Bride and Groom as of 2003 (updated 2006):
http://www.census.gov.ph/data/sectordata/2003/ms0304.htm
This link below is a discussion of the marriage statistics:
http://www.census.gov.ph/data/sectordata/sr06206tx.html
And there is this discussion on: “Intermarriages with Filipinas are highest among Japanese nationalsâ€:
“A total of 17,095 or 2.9 percent were intermarriages between Filipino brides and grooms with foreign nationals. Of this total, some 13,497 or 2.3 percent Filipino brides tied knot with foreigner grooms while 3,598 or 0.6 percent Filipino grooms married foreigner brides. Nearly three-fourths of the total intermarriages were of Filipino brides.
“Among foreign nationals, the most number of intermarriages involved Filipino brides with Japanese grooms (5,468). Other foreign nationals that were married to Filipino brides are the Americans (3,002), Australians (569), Chinese (393), Germans (205), Spanish (124) and 3,519 Filipinos were married to other foreign nationals.
“On the other hand, the highest number of intermarriages involving Filipino grooms were with Chinese brides (1,999) followed by Americans (514), Japanese (155), Spanish (129) and Australians bride (111).â€
@Domingo
Thanks for the data. Gosh, Japanese men do like Filipinas. It could be because most Japanese women have become career orientated while a lot of Filipinas don’t mind being a housewife. It’s a match made in heaven because both like singing with the karaoke.
What happened to the Koreans and the Indians? The last time I was in Angeles they were all over the place outnumbering all others in the bars and dance clubs. They like F#@%ing Filipinas but they certainly don’t like to marry them. I wander why Filipinos tolerate such racist people. They are in the Philippines doing business in a large scale but they just don’t mix with the locals. I would love to hear an honest admission from a Korean men that they are the Ãœbermensch and a Filipina just can’t measure up to them. Funny how the Filipinos are quiet about this.
@Ilda,
probably you are right about the “if” and a “less stressful job”.
But it doesnt work like that in my country. You either want a kid or not and regardless of job you will do it (get pregnant) or not. The “lower” the job the higher the probability the women will opt becoming a (part-time or full time) house wife after giving birth. The “higher” the job the least I expect that to happen.
Well, I think something’s gotta give. I’m sure if women try to have both – a high powered career and having kids at the same time, one will surely suffer. Unless the woman hires a nanny. But that basically means the nanny is raising the kids, which then defeats the purpose of having kids.
Correct, Nanny or full time day care for the kid(s). Either way, I do agree with you that its a waste of having kids no one ever sees.
http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/07/24/no-kids-no-grief/
The case against having kids
They can hurt your career, your marriage, your social life, your bank book. Why bother?
Thanks for the link. It was an interesting to read another perspective. I agree that women should have a choice when it comes to their bodies and well-being. If she thinks that she does not have what it takes to cope with kids, the rest of society should accept her decision. After all, they are not the ones who will be responsible for the welfare of her children.
I think having kids is not for everybody. Heck, some people, those who don’t even have jobs should be discouraged from having kids.
@Joe,
to be very honest with you. I have no clue why pinays date, court and marry foreigners. From what I know and from what I saw (in Cebu) there is a huge age-gap. This is almost a phenemenon and not natural. Most pinays could be the foreigner’s daughter (in age) and I am sure I do not exagerate. Why do they prefer to live in the country of the foreigner? More wealth, better health(??), more materialistics, more freedom, better paid jobs.
Yes, the age difference is material, very real, and possibly “not natural”. Unless it is normal that a whole lot of men go through mid-life crisis every 10 years or so and are still at it at 60. I’m thinking it is fairly common, and men come to the Philippines because Filipinas without a lot of upward opportunity will look for love and often find it where others either don’t have to look, or don’t want to.
Health care is not so hot in the Philippines, I think. But healthy living (better food and relaxed beach lifestyle) is good.
Yes, and wealth/materialistics. I’m middle class in America and rich here.
Most of the time, Pinays say the age is just a number. Sorry, but I disagree. Your age tells you what you did in life (mostly), it determines your mental wisdom, your street credibility. Come on what does a 20 year old know versus what a 50 year old (should) know(s).
By “natural and normal” I mean that – at least for me – the age gap between me and all my previous Dutch partners was 4-5 years tops. And this is what I see around me globally except for the types of Anne Nicole Smith and the boss of Playboy, Mr Heffner.
“Age is just a number”
“Natural” suggests to me that the pattern must be followed because it is “societally correct”. I think rules made up by consensus (of churches, political parties, or even governments) are often flawed, and freedom to do whatever one wants as long as it harms no one else is a good value.
To Filipinas, I think age is indeed just a number when it comes to practical matters like finding a better life. It is not just a number when it comes to the fact that the old guy will die first. But my sense is Filipinas weigh the good, the bad, and even the ugly and do what is best for them. Same as you and me.
@Joe,
Finding someone my own age is a matter of looking for my equal (mature wise, age wise, mental wise, spiritual wise, subtance wise).
Otherwise we can still f*** our own female partners that are 20 years old today, when age is just a number, who cares right?
Well I do care!!!!
You have honorable standards. I enjoyed exchanging thoughts with you.
I honestly think this is a flawed article. Generalizations are made from a “drop of water coming from a vast ocean”. Remember, there are 92M Filipinos (with about half being females). How can one, honestly draw conclusions from the behavior of a micro-miniscule number of the total population?
You make a good point, statistically speaking. It is interesting, however, how many people seem to be in agreement with the points made in the article, or at least use it to try to figure out how to live their own lives well. I also rather think that if we didn’t generalize, or make deductions, we wouldn’t think very well.
Perhaps you could specify the flaws of the article and people could comment on them, based on their own experiences.
It would be nice to see some statistics and numbers. And maybe we can spot a trend.
But even if and when Ilda is talking about a handful/dozen of women who want to find their match abroad for the only reason given in Ilda’s Blog then its still worth to comment.
Although personally I would say a dozen is very neglectable as number. But then again how big is the total group of woman “eligible” to go abroad?
total population = 92m
total amount of females = 46m (50% of 92m)
total amount of women between the age of 20 and 60 that are stil single today = ?
Well for me the number doesn’t really matter because Filipinas already have a bad reputation for being “gold-diggers” among foreigners. Some Filipino men don’t think the trend is alarming because they are still in denial. Some think that it is not a serious issue and to address it means hard-work for them.
@Concerned Citizen
How do you know there is only a “micro-miniscule†number of Filipinas who are seeking partners from overseas?
True, but remember, a single drop of coffee can effectively ruin a pure white dress.
It’s funny how some Filipinos quickly take credit for an individual’s success as if it was the result of the entire Philippine population’s hard work (just like when Manny Pacquiao wins a fight). But when a number of mail-order brides bring dishonor to our reputation, some people just shrug it off by saying we should not generalize or it’s just a “micro-miniscule number” anyway. Obviously, some Filipinos just want to take credit for the good things, which is why our society does not improve.
Indeed.
Credit grabbing, blaming, shaming, all unfortunate traits of the Filipino in positive (first), and negative (latter 2) events.
Funny how I can relate this to the next article, “The Philippines: a country governed…”; Those 3 things are things that most politicians and government officials do and by god they’re good at it.
In my experience there two things common among successful marriages between American men and Filipino women here in the US.
First, the man has a personality that could be described as “mild-mannered.” You know, “mahinhin.” So they are very compatible with their Filipino wives, who are also, “mahinhin.”
Second, the men are are all ex-Navy. They didn’t come to the Philippines to look for a wife. They lived in the Philippines for a while and met someone in a natural manner. The age differences aren’t that big either. That’s because you can retire with a pension in the US Armed Forces after only 20 years. Because of time away at sea, retention isn’t that good in the US Navy. These men would still be in their twenties when they met their wives.
Also the horror stories from foreign men marrying Filipinas, those stories happen to naturalized Filipinos too. You see 60 year old US citizen Filipinos go to the Philipines to find 18 year olds to marry, with the same disastrous results. I know, one of my exes was one of those 18 year olds (she was 24 when we met).
The difference is that these Filipinos can’t swear off Filipino women after these disastrous experiences because they can’t relate to non-Filipino women. They’ll either swear off women altogether or go back to the Philippines to find another 18 year old.
Really? I would have thought that men who prefer submissive wives would have the opposite disposition.
As long as people expect to have a Disney style fairy-tale ending to their marriage, unions between men and women will end badly.
Are Filipinas supposed to be submissive? Holy Moses. Someone forgot to tell my wife. I was a corporate executive but she is boss around here.
Well it was Baron who stated that Filipino wives are “mahinhin”.
Where does “submissive” come from? The most common translation for “mahinhin” is “shy.”
I thought “mild-mannered” was a sufficient explanation.
This response is particularly troubling to me because the stereotype of the foreigner going to the Philippines to find a “submissive” wife is what I’m trying to explain against.
Remember, I’m explaining the relationships I’ve seen that are good, since the responses to this post are mostly discussing the disfunctions commonly seen.
Isn’t shy = mahiyain?
I could be wrong but for me mahinhin is submissive. And even if you replace the word, my response would still be: “I would have thought that men who prefer shy wives would have the opposite disposition.”
I don’t see why you would consider that “disturbing”.
First, people can interpret what you wrote any other way. It could be good for you but not ideal for others.
Second, I would not call most of the responses coming from some people “dysfunctional”. Some of the men here are discussing their own relationships with their wives so I would not call them dysfunctional.
In my experience living in New York and socializing with Filipinos for over 15 yrs. I can say that Filipinas here are not submissive at all. They may have started out as one but I assure you they are not submissive at all. This is so funny to me to think about it. Some of them become ultra sensitive and some of them become right fighters. What makes it entertaining is that they end up barking t the wrong tree, but boy oh boy they feel so empowered! I’m a manager of a condo in New York Manhattan for the last 21 yrs and I have experience with Filipinos at all level of society.
If a barrio lass was given the choice between 2 men of equal income, status in life, virility, and temperament, choice would go to the poor sucker with paler skin.
I wonder if the preference for paler skin can be attributed to colonial mentality or because people are just naturally predisposed to favor someone with fairer skin. It could also be because of what the media is making people believe – that people with whiter skin are more beautiful.
@Ilda
In the US for example, tanning is a multi-billion dollar industry. Majority of white folks I know would prefer someone tan especially nowadays. They even find it puzzling why Filipinos are so enamored by white skin and skin-whitening products. So my guess is that it’s culturally conditioned. I can name a few people who look more beautiful with a tan…makes them look nice and exotic. White skin is far been overrated. If you’ve mingled with people belonging to diverse ethnic groups long enough, you’d learn to calibrate your perception so as to also see things the way these groups do.
Perhaps it’s just a case of wanting what you don’t have. Like white folks want to have darker skin and dark folks want to have whiter skin. It’s all about personal preference, really.
Some would prefer Caesar Montano over someone like Piolo Pascual. Some would even say that the latter looks a bit gay because of his lighter skin. Not that there is anything wrong with gay men. 😉
In my experience, preference for pale skin is mostly among rural folks who have received heavy doses of pale skin media promos. More urbane/cosmopolitan ladies would look beyond surface pigmentation, and might look to economic standing and intellect, for example. And some guys have smartened up to the racket of white=beauty by going all the way bronze.
So true.
I think it’s about time Filipino men step up though. Some of them think they are God’s gift to women even without doing or having much. It is evident everywhere you look. Just read the sign “Basta driver, sweet lover”. Ugh!
Most of the career oriented females I know don’t really care much about skin color. They’re probably a bit more OC on personal hygiene of their prospective mates but that’s about it.
I agree that it boils down to economic standing and intellect, as Don said. After all, career oriented females have different needs. There’s the regular overseas/ beach vacations, scuba diving trips, gadgets, and cars among others. Even if the female does not require the man to shoulder this, in the long run, a man who earns less has to keep up with what the female can afford or even convince the female to be happy with what he can bring on the table.
In a way, I can say my female friends are mostly empowered individuals. Education plays a big part in that.
The latest trend in my country is this:
More and more young women will stay single deliberately/voluntarily because they cant find a suitable partner. Maybe those women have high requirements for their prospect spouses, which probably most men cant meet. But as far as I understand thoe women will NOT look abroad for more suitable men. And because those women dont know if and when they will meet “Mr. Right” they will let their egg-cells be frozen (no, I am not kidding; otherwise they go to waste) and be re-inplanted by the time they found “Mr. Right”. At least they (dutch young women) seem to be prepared for everything.
In short: it seems that dutch young women dont take 2nd best for granted when 1st best/choice may still be possible. Or are their demands/requirements simply too high to meet?
Pls dont ask me what their demands/requirements are bec I dont know. For sure they want an omni-versatile guy who does his part in the household and in the raising of the off springs (if any). Together with having a good job, being romantic, tender and what not.
@Robert
I think that is the trend with women in first world countries not just in your country and that is probably one of the reasons why some men like you settle for Asians. Perhaps you seek women who are not that career orientated? Or maybe you are disappointed with dutch women because they keep looking for the perfect man when there really is no such thing. Their selection criteria does put a lot of pressure on men.
@Ilda,
I am sure you are refering to “some men” and not me bec I am going for equality and quality. If my partner – who ever she may be and regardless of nationality – can not come up with the same line of thinking as I do (on major issues) then we have problem. There should always be a chemistry, a match, a soul mate.
Now I am not completely sure what and how the typical pinay looks like but if my current partner is behaving according to what I think is typical for a pinay then its “game over”.
What do I think is typical pinay? May I stereotype here? Being submissive, all she wants is to take care (cook for him, clean for him and spread her legs wide open for him) of her partner/hubby, she wants to get married, she wants to have at least 1 kid, in return she wants him to take of her financially. This is exactly the way my parents’ generation lived bec that was typical and almost normal for those days. But not nowadays anymore.
I want my partner to be critical to herself, to her surrounding and to me. She must be (emotionally) independent, responsible. And yes she may still be religious as long as that doesnt hinder the relationship in any way. So if she wants a kid bec she thinks she a child of god then its “game over”. If she wants to marry bec that is what her culture/society dictates her to do then its “game over”. Can she think outside the box, outside her culture and have a more global free vision? Or what?
I will never marry out of compliance sake; I will only marry if I see the benefit of marrying (tax-benefits?).
So pinays: wake up, get real and be equal in mind, thoughts and actions. Or find yourself someone who likes your old-fashioned – 1950s – traits, thoughts & mind. Its 2012 now.
@Robert
If your current partner is not a white collar worker, chances are she will have the aspirations of a typical Pinay as you described. I think you should trust your instincts and move on. It seems like you have a pretty good grasp of what is in store for you in the future. You will find that most Asian women still play the subordinate role in the relationship because that is what society dictates.
Unfortunately, Philippine society does not encourage women to speak their mind. If you hadn’t noticed it by now, there are only a handful of Filipina political bloggers because of this reason. There are even men who can’t believe I am a woman because I can join discussions in forums dominated by men.
Hey Robert, don’t forget to mention that your government just folded LOL, and for all the backward ways here that you like to so arrogantly like to talk about you never say anything about the legal drugs and whores standing in the windows in Amsterdam !! There mey be something to say for the way we live and think over here! Sometimes I think you and Joe America are the same entity!
In my case I did not “settle” for an Asian female! I chose an Asian lady because of her values, demeanor and her devotion! You belittle yourself when you say we “settle” for an Asian woman !
Of course not. The word “settle” is not demeaning at all. It only becomes so when people put a different meaning to it. To settle as in “to establish a life with someone from Asia”.
As explained earlier, people have different preferences in partners so when I say “settle for an Asian” it’s not demeaning especially coming from me, an Asian.
“settle FOR” and settle With” have two different meanings!
@Bill
I don’t know why you are offended by the statement. It’s not an insult to your taste I can assure you. Chill, please.
In fact, if you find my statement demeaning, then you didn’t understand the message of my article at all.
English lesson Iilda!! In America to settle for something is less than what you wanted! To settle with something or someone is to “settle in” as to cohabitate, marry , live as husband and wife! Just because you think you are the beginning and the end does not make it so! Methinks you are a woman that just wants to show of her Academic , better than thou attitude!! you may not have demeaned yourself” but you demeaned my wife that I love dearly!
@Bill
How could I have demeaned your wife when I don’t even know her?
I think you already know what I meant but you just can’t let go of your imagined slight. There’s something to be said about that.
I don’t know about you but I don’t go around checking people’s grammar. In fact, I could have corrected some of yours but I just don’t bother myself with trivial stuff. Unfortunately, you have become the grammar police just because you think I am insulting your taste.
Let’s not get personal here. I am not interested in people’s love life at all, even yours. You say you love your wife, right? Then good for you! I didn’t say otherwise.
PS
It should be “show-off” not “show-of” 😉
Chill.
@Bill
Here’s a scenario for you:
Filipina bride: I won’t settle for anyone less than an American groom!
American groom: I won’t settle for anyone less than a Filipina bride!
Hey Robert, quit it. For me, its becoming obvious you’re just want to have a sex trip in the expense of this blog.
Go get a life in your county where women would spread their legs to anybody. I would assume that you have a hard-on every time you see a straight line.
Is that a vertical, horizontal or diagonal straight line? I will not beat around the bush and yes I like sex. Whats wrong about that? If you tell me that Phili women dont like it then something is really wrong with them. Well maybe they dont know how to orgasm bec they might think its wrong to have an orgasm. What I dont want to say is that sex should be there every single day. Can I take a rain check.
But now on a more serious note:
My intensions to wander this website was to find answers to my questions of why the Philippine society is so diagonal opposite to our dutch/wetern society. Or in other words: why does the Philippine society still think, act, behave today like we did 50-60 years ago? And believe me (or not) but I also visited other websites but all that found was facts and not the why.
People blamed the Spaniards, people blamed the church, people blamed the corrupt government, people blamed the oligarchs. But at the end of the day they forget that they (the individuals themselves) are the only ones who can make a difference.
BTW, I’ve been with a Dutch women and they’re really gems. By the book.
@Ilda,
my current Phili partner (35) is a University of San Jose-Recoletes graduate and is working as a teacher. Is that white collar enough? Seriously, I dont know what in your country is considered to be a white collar employee. Everything but a factory (blue collar) worker?.
I consider my partner to be assertive enough to me. Although I cant estimate for real how her relationship is towards her own parents and her younger brother. It seems to be impossible (but maybe I am wrong) to start a real conversation with ones parents and even object to the parents’ opinions (out of respect). I dont speak Cebuano nor understand that language so I cant judge. Thank god both she and I are able to communicate properly (without any hick ups) in English. We both speak that very well
Teaching is considered a white-collar job. But you have to consider the fact that she is in an industry where she is not exposed to the same level of sophistication as someone who works in the financial industry, for example. Most of the time she is surrounded by unruly kids and grumpy colleagues who are underpaid. And her office wouldn’t be located in the business district where most of the more “worldly” folks work.
Look, I am sure you find something in your partner that you consider admirable and amiable. You wouldn’t hang around with her even for a day or a week if you didn’t like her company at all. What I’m trying to say is, no one is perfect.
Well said Ilda!
@Ilda,
I think that the educational system in Phili is very traditional and maybe also very old-fashioned. If DepEd doesnt allow a teacher to be “living together (unmarried)” then I will label such as traditional and old-fashioned.
(This fact may eventually force me to marry my partner out of compliance sake, if we decide to live in the Philippines).
What I still notice in my partner is that she is very sensitive to how other Phili people see her. This is manifested by her by showing almost no form of PDA and wearing no bikini (but a bathing suit plus shorts) on the beach in her hometown.
If she would go to any Dutch beach dressed like that (bathing suit PLUS shorts) she will be the joke of the day.
I actually cant believe that there is still so much respect for a culture that for us dutch is a 1950s culture and would be labeled as retarded and backwards.
I just wished she could express herself in a more free way in her own country. But its probably not easy to mingle with a person (me) coming from a total free country with individual freedom and no respect for the country’s – dutch – culture.
@Ilda,
I do agree. The Thai women I know speak lousy english. I happen to know a quite a famous Thai woman who ended up in a bad mixed-race married relationship to a wealthy old guy from Scotland. She wanted a divorce but he didnt co-operate. She even ended up being inside a police-jail for a night bec of refusing entry to Scotland. You may want to Google her and read everything that happened to her. Her name: Kanokrat Nimsamoot – Booth.
@FallenAngel,
I hate that “Hiya”-mentality in Phils. It prohibts one to speak freely and start criticising a person for a good cause even. So in the end nothing will change for the better.
Pls understand me well: I know each country has its own culture (thank god). If we would all be like each other then there would be no use of travelling abroad anymore. It is indeed exciting to see and meet new and other cultures. Maybe I/we can even learn from them and maybe even copy a thing or two. But I really would not know what I would like to copy from Phili culture that looks good or even better to use for me. Maybe Cebu-island is not representative for Phili but Cebu is the only “source” I have so far. I like to spend time in Cebu City but OMG what an in-efficiency is going on there. If only I could be the president or mayor of that city for maybe a few months and then run that city as a dictator and then change things for the better. And after that just vanish into thin air and let the city be run by the people.
@Robert,
“The only Asian country I have visited (so far) are the Philippines. Although I know a bit about Thailand but nothing compared to what I know (or think I know) about the Philippines.”
Just a suggestion, try visiting East Malaysia. You might find some of your answers there about Asians women especially when you mix with the Ibans or Kadazan Dusun tribes.
In my society, the concept of women is when they marry, they marry out of the family. She follows the guy to set up thier own family unit. The task of looking after the parents actually falls on the eldest son and not the daughters. This is why when the guys get married, they still retain thier surname whereas the woman takes the surname of the husband.
@Clueless,
By reading between the lines I cant exactly determine to which society you belong as you speak of “in my society”.
I am not an anthopologist so for that reason I wont and dont travel abroad. My 20 year old niece visited Malaysia for 6 months last year but she didnt give me a full update about what was going on there. Malaysia isnt exactly on my “wish-list” of countries to visit still but I will keep it in the back of my head.
Thank god, in my society nobody has the burden to look after the family. Parents look after themselves (financially, health wise and in all other aspects). Wow if I had to look after my parents AND start my own family then my privacy is gone and so will be my bank book.
So that means we dont have to marry out of money sake but just bec we love someone. And marriage today is not even a granted thing anymore. One of my best friends is living together (unmarried) with his partner for over 20 years now with their 2 kids.
The female partner is nowadays free to keep her own “maiden” surename if she wants while being married. Intelligent wise, I never understood why a woman should take the surname of the husband. Or at least I should take her surname to make it equal. So pls keep your surname and I will stick to mine.
I never visited South America and Africa and I still want to see parts of Russia. So one of those territories will be the first to visit.
Ah! no worries Robert. I understand where you are coming from when you said:
“I am not an anthopologist so for that reason I wont and dont travel abroad. My 20 year old niece visited Malaysia for 6 months last year but she didnt give me a full update about what was going on there. Malaysia isnt exactly on my “wish-list†of countries to visit still but I will keep it in the back of my head.” Like you mentioned earlier,”…Come on what does a 20 year old know versus what a 50 year old (should) know(s).
As for “my society”, I am refering to the segment of the which as what Fallen Angel refer to as:
“If you’re a Filipino, and your parents were born here before the 1970s-1980s then chances are their upbringing was very traditional and conservative.”
I was born in 1967 and grew up in a very rural malay village.However I had the good fortune of being exposed to both a Chinese (Mom) upbringing as well as a Malay (Dad) öne. I lived in UK for 5 years so am familiar with European Culture.
As for taking care of our parents, it’s because of the concept of filial piety. It predates the time before we were a colony.
If that is so, Robert, you may have somehow learned that subtlety is a more effective way of dealing with Filipinos. If the direct criticism approach won’t work, and it doesn’t all the time, suggest that they change something and make them think it is THEIR idea. You know, like the American movie, Inception.
I agree that sometimes a good smack to the Filipino face (in the form of direct criticism, not a physical one) is needed, but even in Western societies it is accepted that honey attracts a lot more than vinegar, does it not?
Cebu is indeed a nice place. I was there 8 years ago. No doubt a lot has changed since then. It is in itself, a highly developed area, so no doubt you’ll see the whole gamut of Filipino behavior and idiosyncrasies there.
If you let things here be run by the people, they tend to run it to the ground. Filipinos shouldn’t be taken by the hand all the time although that’s what they wish for. Maybe they deserve an iron fist.
@FallenAngel,
Now you trigger me to tell you a true story while being in Cebu City with my partner.
My partner (35) and I (48) uploaded a pic to Facebook with a caption that was so far fetched that a 2 year old would understand.
A day later, my partner’s niece (39) started to interfere by sending a message to my partner asking “if the family name was at stake and that I should always respect my partner before anything else”. End of qoute.
Now if my partner would have been a teenager age wise) then I could understand the niece’s actions. But my partner was and is a mature adult. So I was shocked by her interferences. (We dont do such things in my country!!!!!!!!!)
Because of the fact that I was accused and blamed implicitly I decided to return back home (this was on the 3rd day of my stay and still 17 days to go).
Before “walking the talk” I decided to first consult my own sister and thanks to her I decided to stay.
Upon returning back home I decided to send that niece an email and telling her bluntly that what she did was uncalled for AND if in case my partner and I would ever marry that she was not welcome and would therefore not be invited. Or else I would leave the church or city hall.
Now, you may not label this (the content of my email to that niece) as subtle but I am sure she got the picture. And I am sure any next time she will think twice before she may behave in the same way again.
advised Robert, you are not in Amsterdam! If you mess around too much with the family here, you will regret it Outside of the cities it is very easy to be ” disappeared” !!! Your Dutch arrogance and rudeness will be your undoing here !! Just some good advice, be wise and heed it or stay home
@Bill Steffen
advised Robert, you are not in Amsterdam! If you mess around too much with the family here, you will regret it Outside of the cities it is very easy to be †disappeared†!!! Your Dutch arrogance and rudeness will be your undoing here !! Just some good advice, be wise and heed it or stay home
Bill, I do acknowledge, know and understand that other countries (people) do things differently. However there are some things that are so fundamental for me that if you mess with those that I am prepared to wager my relationship for it. The niece accused me of things unjustifiably without even ever having talked with me or seen me. That niece crossed the line, basta. And my lines are not even thin but very wide.
@Robert Haighton
It seems like your ideal partner may not be in the Philippines because of the stuff you cannot change overnight. The same stuff you cannot live with. You will have to compromise if you insist on sticking with a Filipina because their ways are already set. It’s hard to change it. Filipinas expect the man to pursue them. You might get disappointed.
@Clueless,
I knew that its typical in Phili that kids have to take care of their parents one way or another. I even gave it much thought. (But probably not able to shut down my western brains). I only came up with that I would feel pity on those kids (or oldest or youngest) that would have to bear the burden. Wow, I guess that is quite a responsibility to take care of your parents. And maybe probably one of the only reasons why future parents will pro-create. We would call that selfish behavior and not even thinking about the kid’s future. Personally, I would feel jailed. But then again this cultural aspect is probably as old as your country so that kid will do it without blinking.
Well anyway, as I understand I dont need to worry about my maybe possible parents-in-law because my partner’s mom has a pension and her dad is soon to be retired probably also with a pension. The parents live in a nice house so they seem to be financially secure.
That’s good Robert. What’s important is whether you love your partner and respect her enough to understand her culture and compromise both ways. Its a delicate task and needs to be treaded on carefully. Remember, you are looking to marry for love and not trying to cahnge the world. Trying to impose your own set of values doesn’t necessarily makes things blisfful in a conjugal relationship. In fact by doing so, you will be guilty of supressing her own individuality.
@Clueless,
I will never force my partner to do anything against her will.
I do inform her how things are done in my country and I also explain why and how.
One of the big differences between her and me is that we dutch dont give a damn about what other people think about us. And among dutch family members there will be many different thoughts about one and the same topic whereas I think in Phili to have a different opinion than your parents or even your brother is almost impossible.
Often, it makes me very sad to see how my partner (has to) moves in her own country. Sometimes, it leads to frustration in me.
@Robert;
“…Sometimes, it leads to frustration in me.” <—— Hahahaha, the joy of Cross-Cultural relationship! I totally understand you as frankness = honesty in Europe. But in an Asian society, Frankness = Rudeness" to some. That why in International relations, we have diplomats to handle that task. It gives breathing space for 2 different countries to try find common grounds to work one.
As for:
"…whereas I think in Phili to have a different opinion than your parents or even your brother is almost impossible." <—- Whose's parents? Yours or hers? Then again you have to understand that she is from a totally different culture.
The reason why I suggested to you to visit "EAST MALAYSIA" is because although we value our tradition, we also value our individuality. By the way, EAST Malaysia is very different from WEST Malaysia. As an East Malaysian, we might not be as liberal as the Dutch but we are not as conservative as the West Malaysian.
as for:
“…I only came up with that I would feel pity on those kids (or oldest or youngest) that would have to bear the burden. Wow, I guess that is quite a responsibility to take care of your parents.”
You dont have to feel pity as it will serve no purpose but just to give you a headache. I dont know about Filipino culture in this respect, but for Malaysian malays and Chinese in general, the eldest son will always have a bigger inheritence and a strong say of how inheritence should be divided. It is our society own ways of dealing with a son’s filial duty to his parents.
@Clieless,
Does that mean that everybody wants to be the oldest son (bec of the inheritence)? Or do most prefer to get a lower share and have their own private lives?
Hahahaha!
“Does that mean that everybody wants to be the oldest son (bec of the inheritence)?”
Only if you are good for nothing bum! Like I mentioned earlier,although we value our traditions, we also value our individuality. You are what you make of your own life. Success or failure in life doesn’t depends on your inheritence.
Clueless, amy sincerest apologies for the typo in your name.
No worries, I dont sweat the small stuff.
Thanks but still I should have paid more attention before hitting the send-button.
@Clueless,
I would be a very lousy diplomat.
Its what I sense that its almost impossble as Phili kid (regardless of age) to have a different, other opinion/idea/thoughts then the parents.
It seems to me that everybody is so homogenous in Phili-country and when having a different view than the parents, the parents may think the kid is not respecting the parents.
I actually think the Phili way of raising kids is totally different. We raise our kids by learning/teaching/informing them how to survive in the harsh dutch society, we teach them manners, etiquettes but we also learn them to think for themselves, to be assertive and to stand up for themselves. We give them a piece of pride & dignity, self-esteem. And then after 18 years we let them go and then they have to do it all by themselves.
I really would not know what typical dutch traditions are. Maybe having dinner at 6-7PM.
You just described how I was raised up:
“when having a different view than the parents, the parents may think the kid is not respecting the parents.” ——> My Dad’s perpective.
“We raise our kids by learning/teaching/informing them how to survive in the harsh dutch society, we teach them manners, etiquettes but we also learn them to think for themselves, to be assertive and to stand up for themselves. We give them a piece of pride & dignity, self-esteem.” ——> My Mom’s perpective.
“And then after 18 years we let them go and then they have to do it all by themselves.” ——-> That’s what I did with my daughter (from my previous marriage) who is now studying and working in London. She is 20 now and as she was British born, she could decide if she wants to be a British or Malaysian once she is over 18. I let her have that choice.
Well it would be great if both mom and dad had the same ideology about how to raise kids (this is no criticism to you but just in general). I can see some future obstacles if both my partner and I decide to start a family both coming from very different cultures and different ways of being raised and brought up. So if that moment may come then we first need to communicate very well of how to raise kids.
Let me be very clear to you: I still am no dad. And as far as I know myself, I have no ambition to become a dad.
“I can see some future obstacles if both my partner and I decide to start a family both coming from very different cultures and different ways of being raised and brought up.”
My mom had a very pragmatic way of dealing with that (When Mom and Dad clash).
Ãf you agree then its not a problem. but when there are disagreement:
“Do what you feel is right. No need to argue and stroke the fire. Just listen one ear in and one ear out. After all, he can’t live forever!”
To add: Just in case if we would start a family and living in the Philippines I am not so sure if any of our kids will survive. My ideology of how to raise kids does not connect with the Phili culture.
So to make it easier for the kids, should we as parents raise the kids in accordance with Phili traditions/culture or what….?
My partner is RC and I am an atheist-> We cant give the kids double standards as in sex before marriage is a big NO versus do what you like. And respect should be earned and is not granted. So it will not be easy.
Hahahaha! Sorry. I type the reply before I read this:
“So to make it easier for the kids, should we as parents raise the kids in accordance with Phili traditions/culture or what….?
I can’t answer that for you. You have to consult your partner about that as you two will be the one making the baby and raising the kid up in this world.
As for me, both my wife and I decided that our kid would have a brighter future if he or she is born a Malaysian (Judging from the current views that is around).
As for:
“I would be a very lousy diplomat.” I won’t really know. For me the fact that you are here on GRP trying to find out more only shows that you want to understand and learn more about the Philippines. I be honest, although there similiarity between Malaysian and Filipinos, there are also differences. Which explain why I am here absorbing what the writers and the commentors have to contribute. Their views gives me a partial glimpse of what life is like or going to be like in the Philippines. It matters to me because when my wife and decided to have child, we need to think “Should He/She be born a Malaysian or a Filipino”? That is thinking ahead 10 to 20 years down the road.
Clueless, you can believe me me if I say that I would be a lousy diplomat. I know myself.
For most topics/Blogs published here I cant comment/contribute bec I know diddly about the issue (like all the impeachment Blogs).
That is anticipating and thats a style I like. And maybe changing the minds bec of new insights.
What about dual-citizenship or did you actually meant where to be born literally; on Malaysian soil or Phili soil?
“For most topics/Blogs published here I cant comment/contribute bec I know diddly about the issue (like all the impeachment Blogs).” —> me too.
I prefer to avoid commenting if its pure politics. I am more interested in the economic welfare of the Philippines. There is no point in having all the freedom in the World if you have nothing to eat.(Just my personal view).
Malaysia does not practice dual citizenship. Its either be a Malaysian or whatever you choose to be. Otherwise, my daughter didnt had to give up her malaysian citizenship to be a British.
Not really born literally if both parents are malaysian. But in my case, I am Malaysian and my wife is pinay so it complicates things. To avoid unnecessary heartaches and problems in the future, its better she give birth in Malaysia as the child automatically follow the father’s citizenship.
“…..in accordance with Phili traditions/culture or what…? was a retorical statement but no problem.
Well arrogant wise I think our hospitals are even better so in case of an emergency I prefer to have the baby delivered here. And at one moment I even thought (bec I may have read it somewhere) that dads were not allowed to be present during the delivery in Phili hospitals. I really hope I am wrong about this assumption.
Furthermore I am very convinced that the dutch educational system is by far better than the Phili one.
And I prefer the Dutch culture. But I like and prefer the Phili climate and low cost of living.
I know the standard of health care is better in Europe then in Asia generally. When my ex wife was pregnant in UK, the NHS even sent a nurse regularly to check up on my wife at home until she gave birth.
“And at one moment I even thought (bec I may have read it somewhere) that dads were not allowed to be present during the delivery in Phili hospitals.”—> I dont know as I never went through that here. Besides…consider it a blessing in disguise! Hahahaha you havent being grabbed and cursed yet by a woman in labour!
I see it as my duty and task being the biological dad of my kid and as husband/partner of my girlfriend/wife to give her moral, emotional and physical support during delivery. So in short I want to be there in the delivery room. We made it together so we will deliver it together.
Although you and I share the same view on this, I think what is more important is what your wife/partner/gf thinks here. So when the time comes, ask her if she wants you to be there or not.
Pragmatic solutions: yes preferably. And my will is not law. We should be in agreement on the major issues of how to raise kids.
But maybe I am searching for problems that are not there but what about Phili in-laws? Do they tend to interfere with how kids should be raised, as far as you know (just in case the process of raising will happen in Phili)?
“but what about Phili in-laws? Do they tend to interfere with how kids should be raised, as far as you know (just in case the process of raising will happen in Phili)?”
I think you will find most Asian-in-laws(maybe Americans too) are “concerned” about how the grandkids are raised! I dont think it’s a situation that is peculiar to Filipinos but then I can’t speak for filipinos.
Well if they do interfere then I will tell them to beat it (dutch style). It are my kids and not theirs.
Well, its a decision and a choice that both you and your wife/partner have to make. Both of you are the one who will bear the responsiblity and consequences of your own actions.
Grandparents are happy to baby-sit their grandkids and only if they see the grandkid is being neglected then they will worry and be concerned and maybe even act and stand up. But as long as the grandparents have faith and trust in their own off-spring and her/his spouse, then being concerned is not a first thing on their minds.
“I prefer to avoid commenting if its pure politics. I am more interested in the economic welfare of the Philippines.” => me too. Sometimes I wish I could some missionary work there (non-religious, I mean) and not out of arrogance but just hoping and trying to open their eyes more. I am sure the country (the people) can do much better; they just need a little help, I guess.
I do agree the foundation should be there (food, shelter, jobs. Thats where you start when building a house and if the foundation is not strong the house will collapse and fall down. And when the house is complete and solid one can start to do more and do other things.
I am not sure but I think in my case I could apply for a dutch passport (bec I am the dad) and bec the mom is pinay the kid also should be able to apply for a Phili passport. But maybe I am wrong. At the end of the day this is not the most important thing although….
From my viewpoint:
“I do agree the foundation should be there (food, shelter, jobs. Thats where you start when building a house and if the foundation is not strong the house will collapse and fall down.” —>
I think it would take at least 20 to 30 years for the Philippines to have any meaningful economic progress(That is if they start now full-swing like the Japanese and Koreans after their wars). I based this timeline on how long Japan, S.Korea, Taiwan and most ASEAN countries took to get where they are now.
@Clueless,
I am clueless about any economic progress in Phili bec simply I know little to none about the Phili economic strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats (SWOT).
But when talking about the Phili culture and giving that a complete and total make-over it may take even more than a century. And that is my lowest estimate. I have no faith and no confidence that it will be a speedy recovery. The people in the street seem to be not caring at all about their retarded culture. And I think the government even cares less about it.
Waiting for a revolution or a civil war. My partner thinks it needs a civil war and I even start to think she is very bloody serious about it.
@Robert,
“But when talking about the Phili culture and giving that a complete and total make-over it may take even more than a century. And that is my lowest estimate. I have no faith and no confidence that it will be a speedy recovery. The people in the street seem to be not caring at all about their retarded culture. And I think the government even cares less about it.”
(1) You really have to ask yourself if you are looking for a life partner or a revolution.
(2) As for me expressing my opinion as to how long it takes for the Philippines to progress meaningfully in terms of its economy, it is within the context of bringing up my kid in the near future.
Every society goes through changes. Some changes are violent and bloody and some more subtle. Could you had forseen the changes that the US is currently undergoing from being the grestest industrialized society after WW2 to being the biggest debtor nation of the world in half a century? So you cant really say it will take a 100 yrs for the Philippines to progress from where it is now. You seem to disregard that the fact that you have writers and commentators here in GRP who realize that there is something wrong with their society. Most of them are younger than you and I. That implies they are the next generations of filipino citizens and possible future leaders of this nation.
At the end of the day, nobody will give a f**k what you or I think as we wont be the catalyst of change in their society. Highly likely, within 30 years time, we both will be worm food.
Robert, talking about retarded your government just folded!!!
“Although you and I share the same view on this, I think what is more important is what your wife/partner/gf thinks here. So when the time comes, ask her if she wants you to be there or not.”
Hey buddy, you are kidding, right? If she would disallow me to witness the actual birth of my kid then ……(Wow, speechless here and now)
Well, You dont own her body and dont forget she is the one who bearing the actual pain in giving birth. It is said that child birth labour is one of the most painful experience in the world.Taken from that context, what you want would seem trivial.
Well as long as that the hospital has no rules on this then its between my partner and me. But if she will deny me then I would be shocked, disppointed and will feel treated like trash. Dutch hospitals encourage dads to be present (although some (guys) may faint, literally)
Dutch hospitals encourage dads to be present (although some (guys) may faint, literally <— Hahaha…I know. Same as in the UK in both respect.
A relationship is based on love and respect.Lacking in either one ingredient only result in unnecessary heartache. What you want doesn't mean its right also. It can be wrong depending on the context. If you really want a cross-cultural relationship to work, you have to learn to see both sides of the coin and not just stick to one side.
What does it take of a man to be a “MAN”?
being a “MAN” is a skill that doesn’t require any special training course or experience….
we do err, as humans we are. we drink a lot, we smoke a lot, we fool around and **** other woman…a lot! but we also try to be the best man for our lady. we love our kids, we love our wife, and we want to keep our family intact…as much as we can…but our being human makes us vulnerable and prone to error.
@Clueles,
A relationship is based on love and respect.Lacking in either one ingredient only result in unnecessary heartache. What you want doesn’t mean its right also. It can be wrong depending on the context. If you really want a cross-cultural relationship to work, you have to learn to see both sides of the coin and not just stick to one side.
I fail to understand why a woman would not want her partner to be present during delivery. I know I am not the person who is agony while giving birth but it should be a joint excercise. I cant speak on behalf of all dutch women, but I am pretty sure 90+% would rather see or demand their partners to be there.
*Sigh*…Like I mentioned earlier, you have to learn to see both sides of the coin. If you are looking for an Asian woman with Asian’s values then expect Asian’s values. You can’t compare Asian women to be like Dutch women becuase if you are, you might as well stick with Dutch women.
Sorry Clueless, but *sigh*-back here. So you want me to GIVE and what will you tell my partner? To just stick to her ways? If a relationship is about giving and taking then it should be both ways. It needs two to Tango, right? SIGH.
Maybe Ilda (she is a woman, am I right or wrong?) can explain me/us why a (Phili) woman may want her spouse NOT to be present during delivery. Because so far, Clueless, you didnt explain me why. To attribute it to factors like culture is too vague for me. Even the word “tradition” is vague. There must be a reason WHY? Is it taboo? Is it because she sits there naked in all her vulnerability? Tell me pls.
“Is it because she sits there naked in all her vulnerability? Tell me pls.”
Ok, one of the value of Asian women is modesty. To a liberal and open-minded Dutch, that might be classified as being a prude.
so have you considered that your wife/partner might not want you there to see her at her worse (in pain)? If all you care about is how you feel and how she should thinks even at moments like child birth, doesnt it say that you are quite selfish as a person? I am not saying that you are a selfish person but it seems that you cant even consider or understand the possibility that she might not want you there during child birth.
@Robert
ok, I’m really curious. Why would you think I am not a woman?
@Ilda,
ok, I’m really curious. Why would you think I am not a woman?
Ilda, with that remark I was teasing/triggering Clueless. Looking at your picture I am damned sure you are a woman.
I was a bit surprised with that remark because it shows that even men from supposedly advanced societies can’t seem to take things at face value. I mean, even Joe America insinuated in his own blog that I am a man.
Ilda, to be clear I have never insinuated you are a man. A commenter to my site made that assertion. I said that was an interesting, neither accepting nor rejecting the comment. I know not who or what you are, any more than you know who or what I am. And it is largely irrelevant to how the brain works.
There is enough evidence to suggest that the gender of the writer matters to some people. There are men who cannot handle women with an opinion particularly if it contradicts theirs. And I noticed that your readers are fond of speculating on our personal circumstances. It says a lot about the kind of people they are. They are fond of gossip. Hmmm…it could be the kind of behavior that is encouraged.
Here we go again, you casting your unkind observations after having blown the first accusation entirely. It is one guy who made that statement. Put your paranoid hackles back in your purse.
I didn’t blow it. And it’s not an accusation. You do encourage trash talk in your site. I’ve never seen you discourage it. At least Brianitus was smart enough to tell the guys to stop visiting GRP if they didn’t like it.
As far as I’m concerned, you don’t have a lot of kind words for women who don’t agree with your views.
Any chance you can include Ben Kritz in your list of people who are critical of PNoy? Or maybe you reserve your unkind words for people who are not American.
Anyway, I do not have time for this anymore. I am sure you are going to write about your recent experience in that blog of yours after this. I’m happy to provide the material, as usual. I know GRP is your favorite topic because you get kudos from your fan base.
Well, this is the opening for an article in my hopper:
“I must confess that when a writer I regularly bash prepares a thought-provoking article, I need to step to the candor plate and offer up a compliment.
Ilda wrote such an article the other day posing the daring challenge: “Filipinas are Forced to Look for Real Men from Overseas”. Interesting topic, provocatively presented. You can’t read this article and NOT think for it touches everyone, man, woman, Filipino, foreigner.”
Keep your head up. It will publish in a day or two.
Arguing with this dud Maher boy aka Joe America is like arguing with Al Sharpton or Van Jones.
@Trosp
May I ask who is Maher and why do you hate him?
Thanks
Dude, Bill Maher is a comedian, ultra-liberal or libertarian in perspective, rude and crude in humor. I listed him among the people whose thinking and humor I enjoy (George Carlin, Ambrose Bierce – who was a communist). These would be the opposite of trosp’s favorites. By the way, Bill Maher is married to a super intelligent woman, a babe, a medical doctor, actually, who studies the brain.
Since Joe doesn’t have a problem with rude and crude, why does he have a problem with GRP peeps who are not even rude and crude? He’s not making any sense. He is applying double standards just because we are Pinoys.
Does Joe even have the skill to write an article that does not talk about GRP writers or a spin off of GRP articles?
One thing is for sure, Joe’s readers do not have insights to share or discuss. They just love talking about people instead of ideas.
@Robert
“Ilda, with that remark I was teasing/triggering Clueless. Looking at your picture I am damned sure you are a woman.”<—————
HAHAHAHA! Looks like you managed to trigger a response from Ilda instead!
@Clueless,
I was not abusing your name as a rotten, lame excuse. I was hoping for a response from you. But no. Soit!
From both her picture and her name I am sure Ilda is a woman.
HAHAHAHAHA! I never said you were abusing my name. No worries, I dont sweat over petty matters like this.
I didnt give you a response to that as I know where it will ultimately end up. But as we agreed earlier we ended up “that” discussion.
@Dude,
It seems like your ideal partner may not be in the Philippines because of the stuff you cannot change overnight. The same stuff you cannot live with. You will have to compromise if you insist on sticking with a Filipina because their ways are already set. It’s hard to change it. Filipinas expect the man to pursue them. You might get disappointed.
All I want for my partner (who ever she might be or is and regardless of nationality) is for her to live, act, behave, breathe completely free without any stupid hinderances. I am NOT saying that my country is better or best or that I am perfect (hell no). But there are too many “unwritten” rules in Phili that make a man feel imprisoned and should make a woman also feel imprisoned. Living in the former DDR (East Germany) would be like living in heaven compared to Phili.
@Clueless,
so have you considered that your wife/partner might not want you there to see her at her worse (in pain)? If all you care about is how you feel and how she should thinks even at moments like child birth, doesnt it say that you are quite selfish as a person? I am not saying that you are a selfish person but it seems that you cant even consider or understand the possibility that she might not want you there during child birth.
The more reason I want to be there when she is in pain; to support her in any way I can. I dont see the selfishness if I want to be there for her. I can already so little. She has to do most/all of the labour. I am only a spectator. We have a saying that goes like this “Shared sorrow is half sorrow”.
*More Sigh* 😐
@Clieless,
At the end of the day, nobody will give a f**k what you or I think as we wont be the catalyst of change in their society. Highly likely, within 30 years time, we both will be worm food.
Bottomline here is this for me: As long as the majority of the Phili population is happy with their today’s live then so be it. Even at micro-level. If a/any Phili individual is happy with her/his today’s live then so be it. Just start a survey or poll to find out what really is going on inside their heads and minds. I do sincerely hope websites like GRP will help and have a contribution if the population want change. But do they? My sight is blurred bec I only know a little about Cebu and what I see/encounter in Pinay’s Facebooks and that makes me not happy and not cheerful at all for the near future.
I have no idea how big the audience is of GRP website and how influential GRP is on visitors/readers. I am just afraid most are rusted in their old-fashioned patterns. But maybe my glass is half empty. But okay Rome wasnt built in one day either so we have to give it time.
At the end of the day I couldnt care less. I tried to convince my partner with soft hands; I refuse to do that by force. It has to come from within, all I can do is reach out for/with some tools and show her it can be done in many different other ways. If she is afraid, scared or unwilling then it stops somewhere along the line. We will part and I will get over it.
As long as poeple want to live in a poor 3rd world country without the wish of moving forward then they have my blessings.
I will be cremated so no worm food from me. But I do get your point!
@Robert,
Well I wish you all the best in your life’s journey and hope you will find what you are looking for in the end.To end this discussion, just as a reminder, do pay heed to…
“@Bill Steffen
advised Robert, you are not in Amsterdam! If you mess around too much with the family here, you will regret it Outside of the cities it is very easy to be †disappeared†!!! Your Dutch arrogance and rudeness will be your undoing here !! Just some good advice, be wise and heed it or stay home.”
…when it comes to expressing your views generally here. Not everyone here can take your frankness. Trust me, @Bill Stefan’s advice is sound advice.
@Clueless,
Thank you for your time and good advice. I really enjoyed our way of disclosing each other’s opinions. I still hope that Ilda will give her thoughts/facts about child-delivery.
Thanks again!!!!
You are most welcome. I also enjoy a friendly discussion from time to time.
@Clueless,
see you next time. Time to go to bed now. Its almost midnight here.
Selamat Malam! 🙂
Maher is the most noxious media personality I’ve known. And he’s Joe America’s role model.
Of course there is this Olbermann, Al Sharpton, Chris Matthews, Maddows.
Liar. He is not my role model. The late Andy Rooney is more my role model. I respect the way Maher’s brain works, unconfined by conventional standards or limitations. Olbermann is a flakey bombast, Sharpton a wise and funny blowhard worth listening to but not following, Chris Matthews is good, Maddows is lunatic.
Chris Matthews gets shills in his legs when he thinks about Obama just like you do when you think about Abnoy!
sorry I mean chills hahahahah
Maher boy aka Joe America, saying it differently, he is your idol. For me idol = role model.
Any problem with that.
Just like Hara-kiri. You like the way his mind works. You cheering for him. Unconfined by conventional standards or limitations as you term it (read: dishonesty by conventional standard and limitation).
Sharpton wise and funny blowhard worth listening to but not following? Is there such a thing? That’s why you have that kind of problem Maher boy.
So why would you be affected if I say your role model is Maher?
How dare you call me a liar!
I call you a liar because you presume to speak for me, and you do not do it accurately. Speak for yourself, and you can do fine.
“Worth listening to, but not following.” What have you got against being open to ideas, then sifting through them, and tossing out the ones that don’t work? You argue for ignorance.
@ Maher boy aka Joe America
Seems my comment got lost.
There is not anywhere in this blog that I’ve written in your behalf. Sign of senility?
I’m telling the comment readers here what you are. I’m exposing you.
Affecting you lately that you’re commenting less about yourself he he he…
“Worth listening to, but not following.†What have you got against being open to ideas, then sifting through them, and tossing out the ones that don’t work? You argue for ignorance.
If you’re not yet senile, do you remember that you commented you’re mind is made up in an argument that is not of your choice?
Open to ideas, pwe!
Take note of dude’s comment:
JA: “Bill Maher is a comedian, ultra-liberal or libertarian in perspective, rude and crude in humor.”
dude: “Since Joe doesn’t have a problem with rude and crude, why does he have a problem with GRP peeps who are not even rude and crude? He’s not making any sense. He is applying double standards just because we are Pinoys.”
Confirming my thought that senility is already creeping into you.
BTW, dude
Naisahan mo ako he he he…
Have you ever received a comment that disagrees with you, and actually reflected on it? Or do you just automatically go to the “reject” mode like a computer that got programmed only half way.
Talking to you is like whacking my head against the wall.
If Maher were talking about me and getting the fundamentals wrong, I’d be pissed. And if you would ever lighten up and throw some original humor out, I’d probably enjoy you more.
But you are correct, in a way. Both you and Maher are “morality police”, instructing others on a better way to live. He is now officially teetering at the very edge of my favorites list.
This Maher boy aka Joe Amerika is blabbing something incoherent like a senile man.
Have this dud ever received a comment that disagrees with him and actually reflected on it? Or does he just automatically go to the “reject†mode like a computer that got programmed only half way?
Like for example:
This dud is very sensitive with civility and as dude commented –
Maher boy aka JA: “Bill Maher is a comedian, ultra-liberal or libertarian in perspective, rude and crude in humor.â€
dude: “Since Joe doesn’t have a problem with rude and crude, why does he have a problem with GRP peeps who are not even rude and crude? He’s not making any sense. He is applying double standards just because we are Pinoys.â€
Again, that one, even though he posited it, is not an argument that he will pursue. If he ever respond to that, expect the “my mind is made up” phraseology.
Now he’s telling us that Maher, his role model, and I are a “morally police” instructing others on a better way to live.
I never have I instructed this dud, or anybody else, to live a better life. I’M EXPOSING HIS LIES AND DISHONESTIES, NO MORE NO LESS.
It’s a confirmation of his idiocy telling us that Maher is giving instructions on living a better life. His role model, his idol, earns a living for his noxiousness.
And according to him “he is now officially teetering at the very edge of his favorites list”.
Really? This dud has an unstable mind. A senile I would say.
If this dud is a principled one, he should just stick with his own blog. There he could freely spew his dishonesties and misinformation spins.
And the Vulgarian Maher’s contract with HBO was just renewed!
From Newsbusters –
“Here’s a recent sampling of Maher’s “thoughtful humor” that helped get him a contract extension:
> Bill Maher Attacks Ann Romney Again: ‘She’s Brought Up Five Very Shiny and Remarkably Lifelike Boys’
> Maher Curses Out Audience for Not Laughing at His Joke
> Bill Maher Tells Disgusting Sodomy Joke About Marcus Bachmann
> Maher: ‘If a Black Cat Crosses Your Path it is Bad Luck – Except in Florida Where You’re Allowed to Shoot it’
> Bill Maher Uses Trayvon Martin Issue to Attack…Michele Bachmann?
> Maher: Southerners Should Only Celebrate Confederate Heritage Once a Year – ‘St. Cracker’s Day’
> Bill Maher on March Madness: ‘The Only Place Where You’ll Ever Hear the Phrase “Kansas Is Advancing”‘
> Maher: ‘If Gingrich Was Any More of an A–hole Santorum Would Have to Pray for Strength Not to F–k Him’
> Maher Insults Alabama and Mississippi Voters: ‘Toothless Tuesday Too Tight to Tally’
> Maher: Santorum Homeschools Kids in His ‘Christian Madrassa’ to Keep Them From Knowledge
> Bill Maher: ‘If Rick Santorum Is Your Youth Minister’ You’d Switch to ‘One Who Just Molests’
> Maher Responds to Limbaugh: I Can Call Palin C-word Because ‘I Don’t Have Sponsors – I’m on HBO’
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2012/04/24/hbo-renews-vulgarian-bill-maher-two-more-years#ixzz1t3oVHmq0
I wish Americans were not as soft polite, fair, open minded tolerant etc. as you are Joe. I get frustrated sometimes seeing an American being bullied by people like Trosp. Why Americans have to be the “nice guy”? Why cant they be arrogant and condescending sometimes just like Trosp? Why Americans are made feel guilty all the time in the Philippines. It bothers me so much! Learn from people like him and give them their own medicine! Americans are the most naive people in the world and they just let others take advantage of them. Sometimes I wonder why? Is it because as an American you already have a past of being the colonizer the oppressor the occupier? You believe that you have to be very careful how you talk and what you say? You have to adjust to their sensitivity level? This is nonsense! I will not tolerate Filipinos including my friends trying to act like they were violated or they deserve more or we should feel guilty etc. The last time I was told by Filipinos here in New York about how the USA is responsible for all the shit that is going on in the Philippines I told them to shut up! I wish Hungary was colonized by the USA and not by the f***ng Soviet Union. I told them lucky for you that your churches were not closed down by the communist and converted in to storage and the endless human tragedy that came with them. I yelled at them and I told them we wish we had the Americans as our master! We rebelled against the communist and asked them in 1956 to come and occupy us!
Same for the Spanish: we were occupied by the Turks for hundreds of years and Islam was forced on many of us and the bloody wars that we had to do with them for centuries. I told them to SHUT UP! You have no idea how lucky you are with your colonial past! I just don’t take stupid excuses from them any more! Try fool someone else!
@Atilla
You get frustrated by my “bullying” of Maher boy aka Joe America.
How about his lies, his being phony, his dishonesty, and misrepresentation spins? Are they ok for you?
For me phonies, liars, and dishonest people do not deserve any respect. They have to be exposed.
You may call it bullying and call me a bully for that. No problemo.
In your yardstick. this Maher boy aka Joe America is a nice guy.
Dear Ilda and all others,
I am in favour of and supporter of equality, equal chances for all. I have no doubt that you are a female, a woman. That does not mean we will always agree to each others words/statements/ideology. That makes us individuals, thank god. And I will always accept it if someone has a diffent opinion. Especially when valid, genuine arguments are used to come to one’s opinion. If its based on loose sand then it becomes a different matter but then I will stop commenting to that person. Furthermore arguments can be based on cultural differences, personality differences, traditions, narrow-mindedness, religion, lack of knowledge, being indoctrinated and/or brain-washed, well you name it.
My reason to come to this Blog-website is to learn about the Philippines and the reasons why most of them think, act, behave so diagonal opposite different to the western way of thinking, acting, living and behaving. I do not mind at all when a woman will tell/explain me why.
Ilda, if I insulted you in any way (by my remark in one of my previous posts. It was not even directed at you) then I sincerely apologize because that was not my intention at all.
Regards, Robert
I am not offended. As I said, I was genuinely curious and wanted to know why some folks keep insinuating that I am a man. This is not the first time I’ve read someone question my gender and I can only conclude that it’s because some are not used to women having an opinion. I’m not saying you are one of them but your remark can fuel another round of suspicion. It’s obvious that those who comment on my personal circumstances are just out to ruin my credibility.
Don’t worry about it, Robert. I’m not.
i love you`re article. im a recent filipino Us immigrant and currently working as a US nurse. before when i live in the philippines everyone treated me as aloser nowits different specially the women who treats me less before give me so much attention. My male filipino friends don`t talk to me anymore because i m not the same level with them. Ha Stay jealous Filipino Guys!
youre a fucking hypocrite! A typical immigrant. Dont let your immigrant status goes to your head. Youre getting paid alot now but still know your roots.
As a Mixed-Raced Filipino of Italian,Hispanic and Chinese genes,I would love to conclude these upon further observations of reading GR Post particularly this issue.And as a long time resident here.
The Difference Between Filipinas and Pinays.
Filipinas:
1.)Upwardly Mobile.
2.)Employed or Self-employed
3.)Empowered
4.)Educated
5.)Talented/Skillful
6.)Spiritual
7.)Realistic or Pragmatic
8.)Achiever
9.)Confident
Pinays
1.)Parasitic (Moochers)
2.)Narrow-minded
3.)Superstitious
4.)Hedonistic (Closet and sociopath Nymphos)
5.)Underachievers
6.)Fatalistic
7.)Co-dependents to *Surprise*Surprise* Abusive and Exploitative Pinoy Husbands (Well,Like begets like coz afterall similarities do endure particularly on this one.)
8.)Low self-esteem and distorted self-worth
You can still add to the list.
@The_Eurasian_Filipino
That’s certainly a good way of putting it. I definitely agree with item number 7 under Pinay. I’ve met a few of them.
Thanks for the list.
Reasons why it is a-OK to Court and Date a Filipina than a Pinay…
Filipinas are better.
Pinays are bitter.
(Refer to the list above.Grazie Mille.)
@Ilda:
Can you make an article about this?
It is related to the females in the Philippines.
http://ph.news.yahoo.com/youth-commission–teen-pregnancy-rate-shows-need-for-reproductive-health-program.html
Thanks in advance.
Hi
Thanks for the link. I’ll see how I can fit it in. It’s certainly an issue most Filipinos do not want to acknowledge.
Everyone including me, quit with Joe America I am afraid he is going to cry! And Atilla, I am American and Tros is my friend and he does not bully me Only those that need it
Why do I get the feeling that I’m back in communism? I was born and raise in a communist country and you just remind me of how the party used to behave. They loved fancy themselves as democrats. The People’s Democratic Party! Silence and eliminate the enemy of the “people”! Oh yes, how nice and noble!
In my definition democracy is not what you are practicing.
You should do better than this.
Atilla, maybe cause you are back in Communism! Look around you and what do you see, I know you see it because you have been there! Folks are losing more freedoms every day because of the governments! Check the net and take a good hard look at the US, Australia, and here! Little by little it is becoming full blown communism, and we are not going to be able to halt it because folks want more freebies from the Government ” nanny” states! All this is coming about by liberal governments! Just think “New World Order” or Agenda 21! Google it! It’s all about domination of the weak by the elites in government, and you have seen it before!
I guess I should preface my commentary with my situation.. I am an American Male in my late 40’s, my wife who just happens to be a Filipina is 14 years younger than me. We have two kids together and another on the way. We met quite by accident – possibly by divine intervention.
I have been in The Philippines for 6 years. As a libertarian, I am thankful there is still a place on this earth such as the Philippines to raise my children.
This was an interesting article for sure, but I believe the phenomena is not just a Phil / West practice. It is more of a socio-economic situation.
Having plenty of time to observe what is going on around me, I see many “Romeo and Juliet” stories unfolding. The daughter of a trike driver is “above” the son of a trike driver (or vice versa) and two people that are in love cannot be together because of the parents not wanting their children to “settle” for an equal. Everyone wants to trade up it seems so a lot of people here never even get married and spend their lives being lonely.
I have also seen it many times in the US…. Mothers who want their daughters to marry a doctor, lawyer, or banker instead of an auto mechanic like their father.
In my opinion, the ladies in the Philippines seeking a foreign mate are only making the best use of technology to make their search easier. If Al Gore did not invent the internet, there would not be a rise in these relationships. The world is getting smaller every day thanks to the web and internet savvy people are going to find each other.
I do find myself shaking my head when I see the Lolos chasing young girls around whom they have absolutely nothing in common with.
Thanks for the good Read Ilda. I accidentally found this site today and am definitely going to keep coming back. I like reading real issues and opinions.
PS.. Ilda, Perhaps the gender confusion comes from your photo with the dark glasses and the tagline “Things are not always what they seem.”
That is precisely my point. It is universal. It doesn’t just happen in the Philippines and to Filipinas in particular. I wanted to convey that because the guy who wrote the article I mentioned was singling out Filipinas.
The dark glasses serve to protect me from bozos who love defacing photos of individuals they consider their online opponent. And the tagline refers to life in general not my photo.
Thanks for your insight.
Well, “Pinays” are looking for foreign men for money and love making.
Well its a complex question, Of course there’s the money attraction for young women. I have a very young girlfriend in Cebu, I live in Calif, It takes some time to unravel all the motives.
As the relationship matures things will come to light , No one can live a lie on saying they love you if they do not. I think all situations are different . I try to live life on the concept whatever makes me happy. All relationships have there trials
If it falls apart tomorrow well thats life take your happiness now , we live very short lives . The end.
http://sr.bondwaresite.com/mod/mps/viewtrack.php?trackid=83818
Only music can explain matters of the heart, its such a complex emotion, Or do we make it complex?
Yeah, you’re absolutely right. If only Pinoy men know how to be a real man, not just a male animal who wants nothing but eating and mating with lots of females, then Pinays like me won;t ever look outside the Philippines for potential life partners.
LOL!
So americans are real men?! Nice.. Hypocrite!
Are you from Cebu?
Meanwhile, while still far from being as common as the scenario being depicted here, I have noticed a steadily rising number of foreign women with Filipino men in the country – and have been personally running into more foreign women who are (or have) dated local men…. Just need to bring that out there….
I’m in my early 30s and people would ask me why I am still not married. Well just as you said, who would want to marry someone here who isn’t even matured enough to handle himself. Look around and typically, the men here are allowed to run lose while the women are bent on looking after the house and the kids while keeping their jobs. I absolutely agree with what you discussed here.
My wife (who is Filipina) and I (who am not) both agree that the underlying issue is the way the Filipina mother treats her children.
Little boys are spoiled and indulged; little girls are made to help with the housework and wait on their brothers.
The upshot is that Filipinas are, taken together, some of the most impressive people on the planet and Filipinos are…not.
(oh, for the record, we have three boys…)
Hi Andrew
Exactly! Upbringing has a lot to do with the way Filipino men behave. They are treated like princelings when they are young hence, they grow up acting like kings.
Teach your boys to treat women better.
I am one of those dreadful old foreigners with a younger Filipina wife.
Of course this will “end in tears” – we’ve seen it happen to others – one day my age will catch up with me. So I must be sure to leave her independent, when that happens.
To quote my sister-in-law (my wife’s brother’s wife) “Well, she is OK for you because foreign men don’t care about dark skin!”
Indeed, I had not even noticed.
What drew me to my wife (and I was not “looking for a Filipina”) was her humour, her sharp wit, her questioning intelligence, her beautiful manners, her practical kindness, her independence of spirit, her courage and her emotional maturity. Oh, and she is drop dead gorgeous – as she would point out, a very mixed blessing – she works, behind the camera, in the movie business and I doubt if a week has gone by without some good looking fellow trying to hit on her. “Water off a duck’s back”, as we English say.
What did this rather ordinary older foreigner have to offer – well…her childhood sweetheart was killed in a car crash; unlike his sucessor, I don’t get drunk, take drugs, chase other women or beat her up, and I’m conditioned from birth to open doors, take coats, spend time with the children, do my own laundry and the washing up and, above all, to listen…
Good post Andrew. I have seen Filipino little boys mollycoddled and treated like they are the be all end all for the whole world. My wife”Filipina”, and me “American” have discussed this many times. You are right. There is a world of difference in Filipinas and Filipinos. I prefer the Filipinas because they are much better educated, insightful, and civilized. In the past Ilda and I have had a few differences of opinion, but I respect her tremendously.
Now we are blaming it on the mothers, the same women who bore these goddesses we woship? Trying to figure out why Filipinas are seeking foreigners is a waste of time. I know many Filipinos that are good husbands and fathers and I know plenty of plenty of foreigners that I will not let darken my doorstep. Lots of them are abusers, rapists, womanizers, control freaks, alcoholics, you name it.
In my six years living in The Philippines, I have also run into a lot of maldita women, mostly married to foreigners. Mestizos are some of the worst behaved children in the universe.
I met a great woman by accident 7 years ago. I was not looking for a Filipina, we just met thanks to Al Gore inventing the internet and us both being in the same place at the same time. We now have three kids and they are diciplined equally with swiftness and firmness. They are pretty well behaved.
I still cannot figure out why a guy would purposely seek out a Filipina. There are many women in many countries around the world who are wonderful. The Filipina does not hold the patent on that, just as the Filipino does not hold the patent on being bad.
This post makes interesting reading, but it is impossible to answer the question why certain people seek out others from outside their race.
“This post makes interesting reading, but it is impossible to answer the question why certain people seek out others from outside their race.”
I would have been much happier if you had used the word “nation” instead of “race”.
But, assuming that “nation” was what you intended, I suspect that very few people set out to seek a partner of “x” nationality. It just happens.
I meant race.I am from a multi-racial society where even now, it is taboo to marry outside your race to a certain race:
White on Black is frowned upon to some extent depending on the gender
White on hispanic is okay depending on gender
White on Asian is favorable
Filipinos are a race, not just a nationality. I know some like to claim Spanish blood, some like to claim Chinese blood, some claim to be Malay or Euro or American blood.
No matter what their bloodline is, they squat on top of the toilet seat with their feet on the rim for some reason. I would call that a race!
I laugh when I see 70 year old men chasing around an 18 year old. What do they have in common? Maybe they met at a “Black eyed Peas” concert. I know so many men here that met the “woman of their dreams” and they cannot even communicate and exchange ideas with her. I have been here long enough to see the results.
I can’t believe people are still adding comments to this article after all of this time and trying to make sense of something by justifying and rationalizing.
I will help you. Repeat after me… “I am horny and my girlfriend / wife is willing to give me some lovin in exchange for a better life”
Which reminds reminds me of a joke I heard:
Two foreigners in there 60’s were sitting at McDo drinking all of the free refills they can before the cutoff time. One guy was having a hard time getting a girl but the other one had a supermodel. The strikeout king asks his friend “how did you get that hot chick?” his friend replies “I told her I was 85”.
@ Chris – I think we have a “cultural difference”; you, I suspect, are American. Where I come from, interracial marriage is commonplace and not remarked on. But we don’t have your history.
When I first heard that joke, it was two old millionaires at the bar in a country club in the USA.
I agree, good post Andrew particular the last sentence. I think one of the Problem is the macho mentality in some Filipino men. They constantly have to prove themselves. Unfortunately I never met a Filipino who could say “sorry that was my fault”. We learned, that nobody is perfect and admitting your mistakes makes you person with backbone.
I also agree with Bill regarding the lack of disciplining kids. The result is what you experience every day if you drove on the road and probably how they treat their women.
so true. Im aussie married to filipina. My observations of her family are exactly that…The girls are treated like they will be the providers and the workers in the house…meanwhile a teenage brother is left to behave like a Raj. He dropped out of school 3 times and finally gave up. Throws hissy fits if he wants something like a haircut or new CD.Abuses his sisters if he doesn’t get what he wants.Now 18 and already has a pregnant girlfriend…but sits on his ass all day while she works..WTF..out in the street where I come from
Every time I read something written by you, I go:
“That’s true.” “Yes… yes… yes.” “I agree fully.” “Who wrote this?” “Oh, it was Ilda, no wonder.”
Oh, and being foreign looking, I can say that the bamboozling for marriage is a two-way street.
Hi Rocco
Thank you for the compliment. I am glad you get my point. 😉
it is true most of the part.
however lets not forget their are people who really found love with a foreigner.
i am a witness to this with my ‘tita’ met an american from her work.
and it spawned into a long distance relationship & midnight chats while i was still in college.
when eventually they got married. until now, they are happily married, my tita really cares for his husband and never left him, especially he has medical conditions. they still remain strong.
I tell you, its legit.
so to people who are assuming, please do not generalize everyone.
nice article Ilda 🙂
I don’t usually write a comment in a post but after reading this one, I wanted to say THANK YOU for writing this article. Just like you I also feel sad that Filipinas have a reputation as easy, gold diggers and opportunist. Although, it might be true for some but in general there are a lot of educated and smart Filipinas. I once dated a white guy and I was disappointed on how he viewed me as an easy girl even though I can say that I’m well educated and smart as well. Anyways, it is true that some Filipino men are just too egoistic and too dependent on their parents. To make it worst some has lot of vices too. This kind of attitude makes it difficult for some Filipinas to find their husbands in the country. Women in general (not just Filipinas) are attracted to men who make them feel secure and protected. Well, I hope that someday the bad reputation of Filipinas will change to a good one. Again, thank you for writing 🙂
@Filgirl
You are welcome. It was a pleasure to write this article. I am trying to correct some people’s notion that only Filipinas are attracted to men “who make them feel secure and protected”. 🙂
Thanks for reading!
I’d hazard a guess that few Filipina girls enter adulthood saying to themselves, “What I really, really, want is … a foreign boyfriend or husband!”
A foreign man is almost always a second choice, made by someone who is either “on the rebound” from an unsatisfactory relationship with a Filipino man or who has not found a Filipino to suit her.
The experience of having gone through a relationship with an unsatisfactory man may in itself make a woman value a man who makes her feel secure and protected. Nationality need not enter into it.
Ilda’s comments on the perils of a trans-national relationship work both ways – a Filipina who embarks on a relationship with a foreigner may find that he is indeed a Fitzwilliam Darcy, but she may also find that he is a disagreeable character with bad habits, who may not have told her the truth about himself. It can be hard for her to judge.
That’s because our males are now marginalized more than ever. We blindly follow American laws to correct our notion that we are a patriarchal society. When in fact we are naturally matriarchal. And all these new brand of feminism pushes our men to joblessness and despair.
Hmm, Good observation, but I think it may be more complicated than that.
Michael Tan, the Inquirer’s “Pinoy Kasi”, argues that the Philippines is “patriarchal and matricentric”.
I’m no sociolologist, but I think that could be a reason why, to modern westerners, Filipino society seems “normal”, in contrast to some other Asian societies, like China, where, historically, women have been somewhat repressed.
Please excuse a massive generalisation, but, to many foreigners, Filipinas in general appear to be independent, practical, straightforward and endowed with common sense – these are very attractive traits in an employee, of course – but they are also attractive in a potential partner for life!
So the core argument of your article is: Filipino men are awful, Filipinas are awesome and that’s why they need to find a husband from abroad. Sorry but I find that extremely simplistic.
“This could have something to do with an undiagnosed narcissistic disorder afflicting a lot of Filipino men. Indeed, it was global media outlet CNN International that concluded that Filipino men are the most narcissistic in Asia. An inflated sense of self-importance and an extreme preoccupation with themselves could be the reason why more and more Filipinas are seeking partners overseas.”
Now I don’t care much about Filipino men but I’ve dealt with a number of Filipinas (even had a girlfriend from Manila) and they seem to largely share those narcissistic traits. It’s amazing how enamoured they are with themselves and how easily they feel offended by any comment.
As for the gold-digging nature of Filipinas, sadly many men have experienced that, not just Americans. Of course, as you say they are partly to blame as well. But who should take the most of the blame? Women in other parts of Asia have also been accused of that, but nowhere as frequently as Filipinas.
I do feel sorry for the Filipinas who are not gold-diggers and who have to suffer from this image. But the greed of Filipino women is something which many men have experienced and you can’t just deny it and say it doesn’t exist.
I myself did a lot for my ex-gf, including helping her to find her studies. Never received any gratefulness for that. Today she has a job and doesn’t even talk to me.
I still receive lots of emails (at least 2-3 per day!) from Filipinas saying they are interested but I no longer bother. The culture of the Philippines and the mindset is too difficult to deal with. I also know women from Thailand, Malaysia and Taiwan and I find it much easier to understand them.
Anyway, thanks for your blog! I don’t share your opinion but your writing is really good and I think you illustrate the good side of Filipinas.
Not really. I know a lot of awful and narcissistic Filipinas too. However, they should be discussed as a separate topic.
It’s strange that that is the only thing you picked up out of whole article. I find that extremely simplistic. 😉
I’d say that what you have is just anecdotal evidence. Unless there is hard data saying so, we can never be too sure which country in Asia has the most gold-diggers.
Good luck finding “The One”. 😉
Ilda,
I have been following this post for quite awhile and even commented a couple of times. You sure have opened a can of worms! The poster above seems like he had a girl that may or may not haven taken advantage of him and so he has branded all Filipinas to be awful gold diggers. Could he have possibly been the reason for the breakup or at least partly to blame?
The fact of the matter is that people are people. Nationality does not have much to do with how people act. Women and men the world over marry for money or status all of the time. Filipinos do not have the patent on this activity.
This post and the comments have been very entertaining to read and follow. perhaps you could write another article where you explore what drives Lolos to seek out women young enough to be their daughters, granddaughters and even great-granddaughters. Pedophilia? Control? Trophy hunter?
I have seen plenty of sexagenarians,septuagenarians, and even a few octogenarians with teenage girls. What do they have in common? Did they meet at a Black Eyed Peas concert?
Like Chris, I expect, I have email notification of new posts on this thread activated and it keeps on popping up.
It is easy for an English speaker to meet and chat to Filipinos of both sexes and all social classes and levels of academic attainment and that may account for a number of wildly unsuitable marriages, and hence in allegations of gold digging.
I am a serial monogamist on his second Filipina – I was married to my ex-wife for seventeen years, after a seven year courtship, so we were not in much of a hurry – and although she walked out on her family (I have the kids) for another man I wouldn’t call her a gold digger – he’s poorer than me!
So I replaced her with a younger, prettier, better educated, model who could, technically, just, be my daughter – this was not part of a “plan” it just happened – a friend introduced us.
It would be fair to say that, second time round, I did not need an introduction to Filipino culture, and my kids and hers get on fine (that is rather important!) But on the whole, these things just happen.
Be careful, you are going to get the Gabriella crowd whipped up into a frenzy referring to Filipina 2.0 as a “younger, prettier, better educated model”.
I am the same age as my wife’s oldest brother, so we have that going for us. I really believe the age difference is a huge factor in a relationship. I dated a girl in the states that was 15 years younger than me in the US before I met my wife. the reason we split up was because I wanted kids and she did not. My wife has given me three children in 7 years, and we are having a blast raising them.
I am sorry that your 2.0 didn’t work out for you. If you have a penchant for Filipinas, there are so many great women here in their 40’s that are sweet, smart, and witty. Most importantly, they have enough life experience to know what they want from life.
Good luck to you!
@ Chris – “2.0” just remarked, “We’re not scarediy of Gabriela – we don’t live in Los Banos!” She tells me to thank you for your offer to set me up with a couple of nice fortysomethings but I am Off Limits at the present time!
“Call no man happy until he is dead” but “2.0” and I are, after several years, still behaving like a couple of teenagers – probably because we share a sense of humour. Sunday is going to be fun – her mother (whom I like immensely, as does the whole extended family) is staying with us and so we will have a combined double Mother’s Day (“2.0” and my stepson), Mother in Law’s Day (me)and Wicked Stepmother’s Day (my children – her two stepsons)
@Andrew, somehow, I got your happy ending confused with Titiparisien’s tale of misery. He is looking for women in Thailand, Malaysia and Taiwan now because he has not experienced that it is “More fun in the Philippines”. Sorry for attributing your quote to him. I think someone laced my coffee with decaf!
Regards to 2.0!
@Andrew
Goes to show that people shouldn’t be quick to judge. Couples meet under different circumstances and people can find “love” in the best and worst of times 😉
@Chris
Hehe…it does look like the article will become one of GRP’s classics. 😉
It’s only because it’s an issue that is close to the heart (pun intended).
You are right about what you said here: “The fact of the matter is that people are people. Nationality does not have much to do with how people act. Women and men the world over marry for money or status all of the time. Filipinos do not have the patent on this activity.”
That is one of the points I was trying to make, which Mr Titiparisien failed to get.
Thanks for the comment!
Isang dayuhang asawa ay dapat na .. “4M” -” Matandang, Mayaman, Madaling Mamatay”? :^)
LOL!!!
Filipinas look for men overseas so they can get out of the country. Thats it!
You sure about all FILIPINAS being like that? I find that offensive because I get out of the Philippines without relying on someone’s penis.
Glennna, I’m surprised you were able to get out without a penis since you can’t write a grammatically correct sentence.
when I read something like this, it’s a sign of being a gold digger and unable to.attract decent filipino guys. decent filipino guys arent attracted to gold digger pinay
well, go to your old fart sugar daddy who smoked dope in the 60s and had contracted herpes many times
You sound slightly aggrieved and bitter Janice! Bruised by from your numerous dealings with old fart sugar Daddies perhaps?
Janice, you are wrong. Filipinas, typically, look for older, more mature men, regardless as to whether they are Filipino, or foreigner. Most seek a man who is more stable financially, of course. What woman, in her right mind anyway, would want a man who has no job and who chooses to drink and gamble all the time?
Incidentally, I am a foreigner. But, I wasn’t born until the 60’s and have never contracted any sexually transmitted diseases.
Trust me, not all of us look for that. I don’t mind investing my time for a gorgeous Aussie/English lad.
I have to agree with u. Miss glenna. Not all of us look for that .
I have so many foreign friends. But never think to use them just to get out of the country. Im educated woman. I won’t drag my level down. I have pride. And I would never waste myself just for tiny opportunity.
Using them is a pathetic thing.
Fat? You’d be jelly of my black book girl, Stereotypes are not accurate at all times.
So true most are narcissistic..even tho they are still students and are unable to earn Kung mAkapanlait grabe na..having a business in the red light district I heared the stories of these women supporting their siblings and paying off debts of their parents and supporting their children because their Filipino husbands were busy being a bum,I think it’s not coz they wanna go to another country either if they grew up with a good family without needing to take up big responsibilities which were actually male responsibilities they would not seek to go to another man from another country.
These Filipinas are worse than the Japanese women who seeks high-wage Japanese men.
I’m sorry but I think you missed the point of the article. It’s not simply a matter of seeking a high wage earner for a life of luxury. It has something to do with the women instinctively looking for good quality traits in men that will be passed on to her offspring. These traits include the ability to be a good provider. No one in their right mind would want to live a life in poverty.
I agree. I’m old and poor. My wife, who is 23 years younger than i have 3 children. We couldn’t be happier.
Being a foreigner in the Philippines for two years after meeting my Filipina Asawa in Thailand I found this article well written, balanced and reasonably accurate on most counts. Narcissism does exist in some Filipinos and yes, maybe more common than other countries although Malaysia and Thailand also display high levels of this in their men. I have found that a lot of the problem lies in their upbringing and lack of education ( common throughout the world). The true heroines here are the Filipinas who for the most part are loving, caring, considerate, grateful, loyal and giving. They have the ability to present themselves beautifully even though sometimes living conditions are difficult. These traits elevate them above many other races. I live in the provinces in Mindanao where life is simple. Whilst education plays a part in poverty, an equally large part of a the Filipino mans makeup is that many (not all) are just plain lazy. I am 54, born in 1960….and no STD’s. I have friends that have been duped/scammed. Their attitudes lie in bad choices and an inability to accept responsibility for their own actions. A big part of life on the path to maturity, enlightenment and therefore happiness.
lol…. white trash like you love to stereotype Filipino men just because of a particular experience you have….. you don’t even have a credible evidence or STATISTICS or SURVEY to support your STEREOTYPE….. you are just an old White Trash insecure that your young Filipina may fall in love with a younger Filipino…. LOL…. how can you explain the Statistics and Survey by “Gallup” that most of the Filipinos feel loved?? http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2013-02-14/where-do-you-stand-in-the-global-love-ranking-
Philippines is rank # 1 when it comes to LOVE… if Filipino men are mostly bad, then why is the Philippines rank # 1??
You don’t need a survey. Just go there…most of the men are retarded.
lol…. nobody would believe in you if you can’t even show a credible evidence or statistic or survey… you are just jealous and insecure OLD White Trash afraid of losing your Young Wife LOL….. while I can show you that 4 out of 10 “white trash” in the Philippines are SEX TOURIST and PEDOPHILES…. Between you and me, I have more credibility to make a stereotype against White Trash….
hi and hello,
I want to really ask u can to file the case of foreigner husband they abandoned filipino wife of foreigner here in philippines. this is my situation of my husband iranian he abandoned me here in philippines he cannot sending me the money here until now 2 years ago. i want to getting to file the case of my husband iranian about situation of my life im really abandoned wife here in philippines what can i do for this.
I am glad you read the title of the website ” we beg you to ask us for legal advice”
Get a job and support yourself, you idiot.
I am a Filipina, been to my American man for 17 years. It is very tiring when people make assumptions and generalizations about the Pinay-Foreigner union. As generalizations go, they don’t apply to all cases. And I agree, I also find Pinoy men narcissistic and incredibly boring(except for a few). Ultimately, marriage is a melding of all sorts, primarily for me are intelligence, values, and humor.
The feeling is sooooo mutual. Haha! It’s also tiring on how bimbos like you generalize on how filipino men are usually like. The charity of you citing that there are a few exceptions doesn’t spare you of your myopic perspective and possibly colonial mentality mindset. Your association to the so-called-superior-foreign-germs should do wonders to your self esteem and ego. It shouldn’t be surprising if you even had the wish that you were born from a father who was a foreigner. :p
Why do people sterotype and generalize? Most have no factua base for such assumptions and go only on someone else’s – stereotype or generalization..or worse, mainstream media brainwashing. “All filipinos this, all blacks that, all hispanics this, all americans that, all white women this and japanese men that” and so on ad nauseum. If you think about it, such statements are assinine ignorant stupidity. Here’s some generalizations that actually work….All Asians are..Asian! Hispanic chldren are all…hispanic children. Native Americans are all…Native Americans. All people that believe stereo types and make generalizations are displaying their assinine stupidity…which is incurable.
All white people= Americans
porener = American.
Has no one heard of the simple fact here, that opposites attract? Foreign men often are attracted by Filipinas because of their nice tan (I can not understand, why Filipinos/as try to look white), their black hair and their warm personalities. Of course, as anywhere else, there are those on both sides who take advantage. Foreign men are often naïve. Meet someone online, travels to the Philippines and getting involved without knowing the culture and background of a person (It is btw the same in Thailand).
Stereotyping is for those who make unfounded conclusions from their limited experiences and biased view of things.
But some things need to be added:
1) Filipino men are generally not jealous when poreners take their women.
2) Most Filipinas would rather the porener live in the Philippines than her go overseas.
3) Filipinos in general have a rather rosy vision of life overseas- some even think that every country has dollars and that the salary is 43 times bigger – because it’s 43 pesos to the dollar. Poreners, thus, have unlimited cash.
Narcissism is one common trait in Male Asians in general, not just Filipinos. Male offspring’s generally will be the standard bearer of the family’s oh so important surname hence, the special treatments growing up. Unfortunately, they also develop the spineless, privileged and “mama’s boy” attitude that most women shun. The article was sensible and objective. Foreign men adores women who knows how to pamper their partners and this is what attracts men in general. Also the fact that Asian women by nature are better partners and raised to be just that a good housewife, a little clingy but more positive traits than negative. Of course you also have those that just dying to get out of the hard life they were born into.
actually it is the other way around…. Filipino men are forced to quit school and find work in order to support their Sister’s education…. Women in the Philippines are treated like queens… that is why if you look at the “World Economic Forum”, Philippines is rank # 9 in Women empowerment…. despite the fact that Philippines is poor economically.,…
I don’t really see the connection of Narcissism and Gambling/ Drinking…. I see more connection with Narcissism and Workaholic who does not care about his family just to protect his image…. or like a politician who does not care about his family just to protect his image….
LOL…… Sorry girl… Narcissistic personality are attractive to MOST WOMEN…. Science has proven that already… LOL.. see this…
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/psychology-uncovers-sex-appeal-dark-personalities/
Well I think there’s likely to be a novelty factor to marrying a foreigner and an unrealistic belief that all of life’s troubles will be over if she just gets out of this country. For any Filipinas considering such a move I ask you to watch these two videos first so you can go into it with your eyes open.
Not all men are like in this first video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivf0bsWP0mY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBJe4r0zeQw
If you know someone planning to marry a foreigner and leave the country please get her to watch these videos.
I’m not relying to any men. Nor expecting my foreign friends to marry me and get me out of the country.
I have education so I can help myself.
But regards to other filipina. Those who lost their hope . its better to risk in foreigners than to filipino men. At least there are chance.
Though… Its inappropriate
most of the filipina who go for white foreigners are actually “ugly” in the Filipino standards…. do you notice that?
That may or may not be true but the foreigner is not going to be bothered what ur philipino standards are.
Here is the Reality people…. Statistics SHOW “Filipina Women” are MORE DRUNKARDS than Men…
http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/279272/news/weirdandwacky/survey-says-more-filipino-women-drink-than-men
This Filipina woman hate Filipino men because maybe she is miserable herself… She probably hate herself so she goes for the BLAME GAME…
Here is the Reality people…. Statistics SHOW “Filipina Women” are MORE DRUNKARDS than Men…
http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/279272/news/weirdandwacky/survey-says-more-filipino-women-drink-than-men
Filipinas are fucking desperate to meet ends and foreigners are fucking desperate to fuck girls hence a match is made. Di ba simple lang naman eh. Filipinas would fuck a gummy crusty foreign dick just to survive (note used the word survive and not live luxuriously) and dirty foreign men will fuck any pussy they see since not alot of women from their country will fuck them hence they prey on filipino women.
Di ba simple lang naman eh. Filipinas would fuck a gummy crusty foreign dick just to survive (note used the word survive and not live luxuriously) and dirty foreign men will fuck any pussy they see since not alot of women from their country will fuck them hence they prey on filipino women.